Practice cook today

Bigmista · Mar 18, 2006

Practice cook today (pics inside)

Well we finished our practice cook today. We had some mishaps but we learned a lot and still got to eat BBQ. All in all a great day. Below are pics of the turnin boxes we made. I'd like your opinions, comments and questions, please?

All comments are welcome!

BrooklynQ · Mar 18, 2006

Damn Neil.
I just judged a contest today.
I just ate dinner at the best BBQ restaurant I've ever been to.
And you just made me hungry again.
Bite me.
Let's Discuss.

MrsMista · Mar 18, 2006

I got to play judge today. Boy is that a fattening job. I don't think you're supposed to eat as much as I did when you're judging. Hey I just realized I didn't get to sample the fatties. I want a do over.

MilitantSquatter · Mar 18, 2006

Big Mista,

I also judged a contest today and ate at the best BBQ restuarant I've ever been to (Smoker too - BrooklynQ to provide details and pics) and I'm hungry too !!!

Here's my feedback on your turn in boxes for appearance

- fatties look real nice - I'd give a solid 8 on those and tempted to give a 9.
-Chicken - boxes look nice, chicken looks real appetizing. The variation of the skin color being much darker is throwing me for a loop. Probably a 7, maybe an 8. Would need to see skin in person to get a better idea.

- Ribs - Like box 1 better, nicer mahogony color. Looks like a 9 to me on box 1. Maybe a 7, possibly 8 on box 2. I'd suggest filling in the garnish a little more.

- Pulled pork - both look the same . Nice job pulling, Hard to tell but look a drop dry. Probably just the picture. May just need a light spray mop as a finisher to look a little moister. Probably a 7-8 from me.

-Brisket - I like box 1 better than box 2. Box 1 has a nicer reddish tint to meat. Box 2 has a greyish appearance and not crazy about the ends stuffed in on the sides like that... Probably a 7-8 on 1 and a 6-7 on # 2.

Take my opinions lightly... I'm just one person (and I've been up since 4:45AM and very overtired from a long day).

Sawdustguy · Mar 19, 2006

Mista,

My criticism is constructive. I am looking at it like a judge. I will tell you my mark and tell you why. Here goes.

Fatties: I really like the fatties box. I would give it an 8 to 9. It is very colorful and full looking and the fatties look like I would want to grab one and woof it down. If I had one minor suggestion it would be to trim the sides and front so the are very even across.

Chicken: I would score this one a 6 for two reasons. The way the sking sits on the chicken does not look appetising to me and the garnish looks unkempt and uneven. I have seen cooks sit with a small sissors trimming their garnish straight and even.

Ribs: I would score this one a 6. The reasons for my 7 is that the box looks unfull. There are alot of places that garnish could have been added to make the overall presentation nicer. I would also like to see the sides of the ribs glazed and sprayed to put a nice sheen on the ribs.

Pork: The pulled pork looks delicious but the box looks a little sloppy. I would also give a spritz of apple juice to make the pork glisten. Make sure to buy the best garnish you can.

Brisket: I give the first brisket box an 8. Trim your garnish so it does not hang out of the box. I would also spray or paint a little jus on the briskey to make it shine and glisten.

Take it for what it is worth. I have heard that the reward is in the details. I have seen cooks drag out what looks like a make-up kit with all kinds of brushes and scissors to meticulously trim and fill in the garnish and brush glaze and jus to make their product look wonderful. I hope I have helped. Best of luck.

Sledneck · Mar 19, 2006

Sawdustguy said:
Mista,

Pork: The pulled pork looks delicious but the box looks a little sloppy. I would also give a spritz of apple juice to make the pork glisten. Make sure to buy the best garnish you can.

What type of garnish would that be?

Bigmista · Mar 19, 2006

MilitantSquatter said:
Big Mista,

I also judged a contest today and ate at the best BBQ restuarant I've ever been to (Smoker too - BrooklynQ to provide details and pics) and I'm hungry too !!!

Here's my feedback on your turn in boxes for appearance

- fatties look real nice - I'd give a solid 8 on those and tempted to give a 9.
-Chicken - boxes look nice, chicken looks real appetizing. The variation of the skin color being much darker is throwing me for a loop. Probably a 7, maybe an 8. Would need to see skin in person to get a better idea.

- Ribs - Like box 1 better, nicer mahogony color. Looks like a 9 to me on box 1. Maybe a 7, possibly 8 on box 2. I'd suggest filling in the garnish a little more.

- Pulled pork - both look the same . Nice job pulling, Hard to tell but look a drop dry. Probably just the picture. May just need a light spray mop as a finisher to look a little moister. Probably a 7-8 from me.

-Brisket - I like box 1 better than box 2. Box 1 has a nicer reddish tint to meat. Box 2 has a greyish appearance and not crazy about the ends stuffed in on the sides like that... Probably a 7-8 on 1 and a 6-7 on # 2.

Take my opinions lightly... I'm just one person (and I've been up since 4:45AM and very overtired from a long day).

Thanks! Color variations are just from whether the flash went off or not, especially on the brisket. THanks again for the opinion. It is greatly appreciated!

Bigmista · Mar 19, 2006

Sawdustguy said:
Mista,

My criticism is constructive. I am looking at it like a judge. I will tell you my mark and tell you why. Here goes.

Fatties: I really like the fatties box. I would give it an 8 to 9. It is very colorful and full looking and the fatties look like I would want to grab one and woof it down. If I had one minor suggestion it would be to trim the sides and front so the are very even across.

Chicken: I would score this one a 6 for two reasons. The way the sking sits on the chicken does not look appetising to me and the garnish looks unkempt and uneven. I have seen cooks sit with a small sissors trimming their garnish straight and even.

Ribs: I would score this one a 6. The reasons for my 7 is that the box looks unfull. There are alot of places that garnish could have been added to make the overall presentation nicer. I would also like to see the sides of the ribs glazed and sprayed to put a nice sheen on the ribs.

Pork: The pulled pork looks delicious but the box looks a little sloppy. I would also give a spritz of apple juice to make the pork glisten. Make sure to buy the best garnish you can.

Brisket: I give the first brisket box an 8. Trim your garnish so it does not hang out of the box. I would also spray or paint a little jus on the briskey to make it shine and glisten.

Take it for what it is worth. I have heard that the reward is in the details. I have seen cooks drag out what looks like a make-up kit with all kinds of brushes and scissors to meticulously trim and fill in the garnish and brush glaze and jus to make their product look wonderful. I hope I have helped. Best of luck.

Guy,

The brisket and the pork were bothe shinier than the picture shows. Guess I need a better camera. We sprayed the pork and we dipped the brisket in the jus just before placing it in the box.

I suggested skinless thighs to our chicken guy but he is going to try a few more things to get the chicken right. Great flavor though. We had some problems with the ribs. Probably not enough coal in the WSM because they weren't done after five hours. I suggested the 3-2-1 method to our rib guy but he doesn't like to foil his ribs. I'll try to convince him to do it both ways so we can compare. Great rub and sauce on the ribs though. Sweet beginning with an ancho chili finish.

We are really excited about doing this contest and appreciate all the help we are getting from the brethren.

Bigmista · Mar 19, 2006

Any other comments?

Sawdustguy · Mar 19, 2006

Bigmista said:
Guy,

The brisket and the pork were bothe shinier than the picture shows. Guess I need a better camera. We sprayed the pork and we dipped the brisket in the jus just before placing it in the box.

I suggested skinless thighs to our chicken guy but he is going to try a few more things to get the chicken right. Great flavor though. We had some problems with the ribs. Probably not enough coal in the WSM because they weren't done after five hours. I suggested the 3-2-1 method to our rib guy but he doesn't like to foil his ribs. I'll try to convince him to do it both ways so we can compare. Great rub and sauce on the ribs though. Sweet beginning with an ancho chili finish.

We are really excited about doing this contest and appreciate all the help we are getting from the brethren.

I had a feeling that was the case about the photo. That being so, my marks would have definetly been higher. Don't think my turn-in boxes are any better. I am not creative at all. This happens to be the one part my team sucks at the most. After all, we are just a bunch of fat Polocks. Let me emphasize that first and foremost all your entries looked absolutely delicious and that is the most important thing. Taste is the highest weighted criteria and from the looks of it thats no worry. What I mean by the best garnish is that my wife goes through heads and heads of lettuce and many boxes of parsley to find the absolutely best she can find at our local market. They cringe when they see her. I know you will do fine.

Sawdustguy · Mar 19, 2006

Sledneck said:
What type of garnish would that be?

My wife is the scourge of our local produce market. My wife goes through every head of lettuce, all the parsley etc. to find the best of what they have. They cringe when they see her.

parrothead · Mar 19, 2006

Fatties- They look excellent! Love the color!
Chicken- Needs some improvement on appearance. Don't trim up the skin until you are done cooking. Before that stretch and stretch the skin so that it wraps around and tucks under, then trim any extra hangers before turn in. You can also do some stretching before turn in if it shrinks to much. Give a call to the poobah and get some details from him on this. May be just me, but I would give a five or so based on the broad contrast that has come about from the shrinkage.
Ribs- They look excellent and tasty. The only thing that I don't see is that they are not pulling back from the bone what so ever. But, you said they weren't cooked long enough in the WSM.
Pulled pork- Looks good, but pulled pork is pulled pork
Brisket- Looks to me like your pieces were trimmed on the side to fit in the box better. I personally like to use smaller pieces so as not to trim and show bark on the top and both sides of the piece as well as a nice uniform smoke ring. Sofar I have not had a problem. I try to find whole packers under ten pounds. Kinda hard to do.
Overall garnish- Definately needs a little bit more time taken in placement. I like to get a nice level ring all the way around. Don't skimp! In competition, we use no less than one head per box, averaging about one and a half heads per turn-in box. This doesn't have to consume valuable turn-in time. Lettuce can be washed and seperated the night before or early in the morning. Boxes can also be made up well before turn in and stored in a cooler. Parsley may be a bit over used in some cases. I typically just like to use a sprig or three here and there to accent.

One last point. My mother was a flower arranger at one time. One of the biggest rules to stick to when arranging flowers (I assume that the same holds true to BBQ turn in boxes) is that under ten, odd numbers are more pleasing to the eye. I try to do this when arranging boxes. 3 strategically placed parsley sprigs rather than 2 or 4. 7 ribs rather than the rquired 6, etc., etc..

Just a few thoughts, and just my opinions.

beerguy · Mar 19, 2006

Hey Guy, nothing personal, but I think you just spoiled my dream of pursuing being a judge. If you have to fluff and trim the garnish, just to be attacted to the finished product, this sounds more like the management style of corporate America that I detest. A contestant may have the best pork or whatever in a box but because some other guy trims a hangover of lettuce with a pair of eyebrow sissors he wins, doesn't sound fair. I know you are helping Mista and his team with the facts he asked for, but you also just saved me a lot of aggravation and expense by not pursuing a passion that I may have found to be a fraud.

By the way, Mista I thought it all looked great, but I don't count!

Kevin · Mar 19, 2006

beerguy said:
Hey Guy, nothing personal, but I think you just spoiled my dream of pursuing being a judge. If you have to fluff and trim the garnish, just to be attacted to the finished product, this sounds more like the management style of corporate America that I detest. A contestant may have the best pork or whatever in a box but because some other guy trims a hangover of lettuce with a pair of eyebrow sissors he wins, doesn't sound fair. I know you are helping Mista and his team with the facts he asked for, but you also just saved me a lot of aggravation and expense by not pursuing a passion that I may have found to be a fraud.

By the way, Mista I thought it all looked great, but I don't count!

Beerguy, These responses to Bigmista are regarding appearance only, as that is realy all that you can comment on from a picture, and as pointed out, the lighting can even make a picture deceiving. The importance of appearance is a small part of the final score. Important yes, but small.

Kansas City Barbecue Society Judgeing Procedures:
6. The weighting factors for the point system are as follows:
Appearance 0.5714
Taste 2.2858
Tenderness/Texture 1.1428

I'm trying to say that even though appearance is part of the score, if one team's product tastes superior to another team's but scores less in appearance, the better tasting turn in will win. Just didn't want to see you get turned off by the level of attention appearance is getting in this thread.

JohnMcD348 · Mar 19, 2006

Guys, I just want to say thanks, really for the insight and knowledge you guys are giving me on this. I've only ever judged one contest and was then only recently after the KCBS class. WOW! The things you guys are saying speaks volumes to me. I think I want to save this post for future reference.

BigMista, as far as I see your turn ins, they all looked really good. For the garnish, I would try to get a more uniform and claener look to the lines along the box. Maybe like was said before to try and make it so the lettuce doesn't stick out of the box when it's closed. Yea, I know it's a meat contest, not a garnish contest, but even though people are told one thing, they still have a tendancy to look at the Whole picture and not just the center peice. Work a little more on the skin to try and get it to stretch over a little more.
I didn't see anything in any of the boxes that looked unappetizing to me. Everything looked good from the photos.

butt head · Mar 19, 2006

Beerguy, the compotition is more about having a good time with familiy and friends( at least to me anyway) than winning. the points that a judge gives me are just thier oppinion. you are missing out on a great time if you don't at least try a comp.

beerguy · Mar 19, 2006

Thanks everyone, I forgot this was only pictures. Kevin, the scoring makes sense. I feel better now. As I attend more and more events, I think I will pursue this, cause I think being on both sides of the box, the presenter and the judge, and appreciating everyones hard work will make for an excellent judging criteria.

Bigmista · Mar 19, 2006

I know I am definitely learning alot. keep the comments coming!!

jgh1204 · Mar 19, 2006

Beerguy, there are other bbq associations that do not allow garnish or sauce in the turn in box. IBCA is one. They do grade appearance though.

Another thing about IBCA is that they do not allow extra meat in the box. If they call for 9 slices, there had better be 9 slices, not 8, not 10, 11 is right out.

nmayeux · Mar 19, 2006

Mista,
The boxes look great, and you have recieved some sage advice. The only thing that I can add, is I noticed that Tim and Dave used toothpicks to keep the skin on the chicken in place. They removed the picks just before turn in, and at least I was very impressed with the results. Good luck, and I hope you win big!

Practice cook today

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