Can you expand on this point please? I would like to know what my options will be before I go any further with mods or sell my Wichita.
2 Problems for new Yoder Wichita owner
- Thread starter bbqpitsmoker
- Start date
Can you expand on this point please? I would like to know what my options will be before I go any further with mods or sell my Wichita.
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
Hi Joe. :welcome:
We had a discussion about kiln-dried wood because of the video entitled "How to start and maintain a fire on an offset smoker," which was posted on the Yoder Community Forum recently. In the video, Chef Tom said the following:
This is why we are all under the impression that kiln-dried wood is recommended for the Yoder offsets. The comments you made to T-Roy seemed to reinforce that recommendation, that's all. Speaking for myself, I had thought Chef Tom was affiliated with Yoder through ATBBQ, so when he said "we always recommend" I assumed he meant Yoder recommends kiln-dried wood in an offset. If I'm hearing you right, you're saying you disagree with Chef Tom on this.
Here's the thread that resulted from Chef Tom's video:
Offset Smokers- How many of you rely on kiln dried wood to maintain a clean fire in an offset smoker?
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241967
Notorious Q.U.E.
is Blowin Smoke!
Slamkeys, we trust you amigo. Kindly let us know if it’s resolved to your satisfaction . If Yoder can make it right with you then their stock will shoot up several points in my book!!
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
I just saw this old video clip and it resonated with me. Paul Shirley, in another one of his build walk-throughs, pointed out how his firebox heat flows directly into the chamber, and explained: "It's not going to be hanging up on a big lip hanging down ... we just believe it's better for flow." He also says: "This damper here is well oversized for this cooker, that way he'll get plenty of airflow."
He definitely gets it. :amen:
Top of firebox mounted flush with the entry into the chamber:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6krkBPpryA
He definitely gets it. :amen:
Top of firebox mounted flush with the entry into the chamber:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6krkBPpryA
Retrofit the old witchitas? Mine just arrived 4 days ago. I'm feeling like I need one of those firebox doors Slamkeys has designed. I'm not by any means close to Slamkeys abilities I can definitely see Airflow and the door is an issue. I see the height difference between mine and Troys firebox door on his witchita that he got in 2014. My firebox door is much lower and wider on the bottom opening where you can see they were addressing an issue maybe quietly but it was a design change. Hell I'll buy the damn new door if that's how this is going to go down but let's do something PLEASE.
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
Joe Phillips just commented on the new changes over at the Yoder forum. Apparently there will be videos soon documenting the behavior of the new vs. old designs.
http://community.yodersmokers.com/viewtopic.php?p=8989#p8989
I'm a little bothered by the notion that the root cause of the Yoder flow issues is the door. I managed to get a slight performance improvement by lowering the intake on my door, but I've always contended that the firebox is simply mounted too high. It is actually mounted above the lower cooking grate on my unit. That makes no sense at all to me, and the only explanation I've seen online is that the firebox was mounted high to provide the largest possible opening into the firebox. However, the opening into the firebox was then blocked off by 6 1/2" of steel plate when you add the ash deflector and the heat management plate. I'm at a loss.
Many people have noted that Aaron Franklin's pits don't even have intake vents, and he uses the firebox door alone for controlling his intake. That is the truth. However, he has designed his pits in a way that does not allow the firebox heat to flow backwards simply by opening the door. I would be perfectly happy if my pit were designed that way, and I would adjust the door opening as needed to control my fire.
bbqpitsmoker
Full Fledged Farker
I haven’t seen the door damper design on the new cooker. Would you please post some photos on this thread?
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
I was hoping the new Wichita design would be radically different (not just a "tweak"), something like this sneak peek at a prototype of Aaron Franklin's new backyard pit - soon to be dubbed "The Wichita Killer." :razz:
https://www.texasmonthly.com/bbq/treif-no-franklin-barbecue/
https://www.texasmonthly.com/bbq/treif-no-franklin-barbecue/
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
I just saw a new post from Yoder_Herb on the Yoder Forum that finally explains what I'm doing wrong: I'm building my fire in the wrong location inside the firebox. You have to build it on the back right side next to the fire door. What was I thinking? I don't remember seeing that in the instructions.
http://community.yodersmokers.com/viewtopic.php?p=8998#p8998
http://community.yodersmokers.com/viewtopic.php?p=8998#p8998
12ring
Full Fledged Farker
Slamkeys I sent you a PM.
CptKaos
is one Smokin' Farker
Hahaha, you guys are funny
Larry
Larry
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
Sounds like a Horizon. Are you sure you bought a Yoder? Maybe Yoder punted and made a deal with Horizon to send them the smokers without the nameplates so Yoder can rivet their own nameplates on them once they arrive at their shop ...
Bryan58
Found some matches.
I received my Cheyenne today. When I ordered on 8/30, I was really excited to get this smoker. My excitement turned into regret and fearing what I got myself in to. I'm glad to report that my Cheyenne works as advertised. I followed Chef Tom's fire management video and had no issues with white smoke. While I was seasoning, I got the smoker to 325 on the firebox side and 285 on the stack side, grate level, and was able to set the firebox damper to 1/3 open and the stack to half open and the fire kept rolling and the temps stayed steady with thin blue smoke. The only caveat, like Chef Tom, I was using kiln dried wood. I did have the heat management plate installed.
The damper is lowered, as pictured below. Still the same damper size from what I can tell.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XniOI1ynU1QUMweW1RUjJmd2s/view?usp=sharing
The damper is lowered, as pictured below. Still the same damper size from what I can tell.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XniOI1ynU1QUMweW1RUjJmd2s/view?usp=sharing
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
That's great news. I can't tell from the photo, but does it look like they lowered the firebox at all?
Bryan58
Found some matches.
I don't think so. There may be about an inch of the damper that is above the opening of the main chamber. I did see some smoke coming out of the top of the damper.
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
I'm still puzzled about the height of the firebox because that makes a huge impact on the ability to open up the passageway into the cooker.
Take a look at this Horizon 20" model. Since the firebox is mounted below the cooking grate in the main chamber, the net height of the ash deflector and convection plate combined is minimal, resulting in enough headroom even above the top of the side door to allow you to open the door without heat pouring out of it. This design just looks right to me.
When the firebox is mounted above the main cooking grate, as Yoder has done, it requires the ash deflector and convection plate to extend much lower in order to get the convection plate far enough under the cooking grate to prevent excessive radiant heat there. This is what has happened to the Yoder design, resulting in the 6 1/2" barrier on my Wichita. This is also what is preventing me from trying to imitate the Horizon convection plate system with another modification. If I were to shrink the lip on the heat management plate to reduce the blockage into the cooking chamber, and then weld some horizontal rails for it to slide on, then the heat management plate would probably end up directly below the main cooking grate. Then I'd have to move the main cooking grate up about 3-4 inches to get it away from the radiant heat from the heat management plate. It's a pickle.
Bryan58
Found some matches.
Yea, I agree that they should do something about the firebox. Or at least raise up the heat management plate and the grate to reduce that blockage. I wonder if that would actually decrease the temperature variance from left to right, without having as much heat trapped there.
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
I'm still baffled (no pun intended) by the Yoder design. What logic dictates that the firebox be mounted above the cooking surface? It's probably not an issue if you omit the ash deflector and heat management plate and simply allow the heat to flow straight into the cooker, but that's not the case here.
I've seen just about every offset smoker brand out there and I believe this high mounting point is unique to the Yoder brand, at least when it is combined with an ash deflector plate and a heat management plate that needs to extend well below the cooking grate. The result is a firebox that pools heat in its upper section and then burps it out towards the cooking chamber when it is forced to move down below the heat management plate or out the opposite side through the upper vent or door opening when the door is ajar.
Yoder can argue they have some unique design here that "holds back" the flow enough to produce more smoke, but at what cost to the customer? Obviously there are more than a few customers who don't enjoy cooking on the Yoder "choke" system because it forces them to cook in a non-traditional fashion, i.e. always leave the door open, or point the cooker into the wind, or simply use charcoal with wood chunks added for flavor.
Yoder Wichita firebox elevation:
I've seen just about every offset smoker brand out there and I believe this high mounting point is unique to the Yoder brand, at least when it is combined with an ash deflector plate and a heat management plate that needs to extend well below the cooking grate. The result is a firebox that pools heat in its upper section and then burps it out towards the cooking chamber when it is forced to move down below the heat management plate or out the opposite side through the upper vent or door opening when the door is ajar.
Yoder can argue they have some unique design here that "holds back" the flow enough to produce more smoke, but at what cost to the customer? Obviously there are more than a few customers who don't enjoy cooking on the Yoder "choke" system because it forces them to cook in a non-traditional fashion, i.e. always leave the door open, or point the cooker into the wind, or simply use charcoal with wood chunks added for flavor.
Yoder Wichita firebox elevation:
Bryan58
Found some matches.
I just saw a new post from Yoder_Herb on the Yoder Forum that finally explains what I'm doing wrong: I'm building my fire in the wrong location inside the firebox. You have to build it on the back right side next to the fire door. What was I thinking? I don't remember seeing that in the instructions.
http://community.yodersmokers.com/viewtopic.php?p=8998#p8998
I realized this on my pit, but when the fire is built in that corner and you close the damper down halfway, the bottom part of the damper is allowing the air to flow directly under the fire and the top portion of the damper is closed on that side. If the damper were reversed, they'd tell us to build our fire on the front right side. If they know this is a problem, why not just fix it instead of just lowering the damper?
slamkeys
Knows what a fatty is.
I'm still trying to figure out why they didn't bring in some help if they can't figure it out on their own. Is there an engineer over there somewhere? Roger Davidson could show them how it's done.
My door mod must be superior to their lowered vent mod because I had a dramatic performance increase with mine - and I wouldn't think of going back to the original door. I can build my fires smack dab in the middle of the firebox and the Wichita cooks like a kiln all day long.
I smoked a prime brisket last Saturday (with a few rain showers early on) and I had a great time, and never opened the side door all day.
Fire in the hole! See any white smoke? Note: regular old oak firewood stored outdoors in 99% Houston humidity; NOT kiln-dried wood.
Houston showers - look at all that steam! This is one reason I didn't get a YS640 instead - the offset just chugs along even in the rain:
Prime packer didn't last long:
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