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This rule applies to everything from lemonade to meat, to plumbers etc...

Pick two from these- GOOD FAST CHEAP

No matter what, you wont get all three.
 
oh wow. the pink slime thing makes me want to ground my own meat, even if it's the craptastic stuff in our stores.
 
What regulations are stopping a cattle producer from grazing his cattle in grass for three years until the animal goes to butcher instead of 9 months on corn? Or the Florida citrus grower selling his blemished fruit fresh instead of frozen concentrate? Conversely why isn't the pristine fruit of California sold into concentrate?


There are a lot of regulations and restrictions in the food system via USDA/FDA but the vast majority of those restrictions are reactions to problems introduced by free enterprise and do not restrict a grower from producing the way they want. The pressure to produce the products a certain way is 99% economic.

exactly. and that's sad.
 
Well, I sort of wish I had left out the comment regarding the Government. I was being serious about the flavor of meat these days.

My statement was not well researched or thought-out (still isn't).

I expected the regulations did in some way have an effect on the flavor of meat and I still do think so. The first thing that came to mind was the use of Antibiotic's, it appears that some cause the animals to gain weight more rapidly. So I guess if you sell by the pound that is a plus for the producers.

On the same thought process, this extra weight, whether fat or muscle, what flavor changes are produced by this? Some reading here

Since this post took a real political turn I found a Website that is pretty informative, FWIW. http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/foodsafety/private.htm#regulation
 
i'm ok with this part..... from this link.... http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/foodsafety/private.htm#regulation

"......the centerpiece of U.S. meat and poultry food safety regulation is the 1996 pathogen reduction/hazard analysis critical control point rule. This regulation:
  • requires all meat and poultry establishments to develop and implement written sanitation standard operating procedures (SSOPs).
  • mandates generic E. coli testing by slaughter plants.
  • establishes pathogen reduction performance standards for Salmonella that slaughter establishments and raw ground meat producers must meet.
  • requires all meat and poultry establishments to develop and implement a HACCP program.
The goals of this regulation were to shift more responsibility for food safety to private markets by requiring producers to implement and maintain their own HACCP program, introduce a performance-based standard to which plants must adhere, and compel producers of raw products to test products to verify the integrity of their food safety process control systems. Food safety performance standards for meat and poultry are based on allowable levels of pathogens. Regulators monitor performance but do not specify how producers meet those tolerances. Performance is based strictly on whether the producer meets the standard.
Recent estimates of a 50-percent reduction in contamination by E. coli O157:H7 over 2000-03, "



i'm with you though. i still wish it wasn't tasteless.
 
I would say that if the idea of the government causing the deterioration of the taste of food has to do with what they allow, as opposed to some regulation that causes meat producers to lower quality, I can see the point as well. Terry, restated as you just did, I see your point.

There is certianly a reasoned statement that if we were actually told, in simple terms, what is in our food, there might be more of a out cry for better food. I think the reality of what goes into much of our mainstream food supply would horrify some folks into action, but, I still believe many would just accept that this is what is needed to survive.
 
I agreed with everything until you brought in government regulations. I'm a big fan of criticisizing the government but I'm aware of no regulation that creates any effect on how meat tastes.

I pin the blame squarely on the meat producers who changed how they feed the animals, that plays a bigger role in how the meat will taste.

I can get locally raised pork that has more fat and marbling (and therefore flavor) than you'll find in the store from Swift or Farmer John. It's all in how the animal is raised and fed.

The government doesn't tell these people how to feed their animals, they go with what earns them the largest profits.
And more than likely that local meat you buy is from a small farmer that "raises" his/her animals like they always have done in the past. The corporate "agribusiness" giants cut corners, push the animals, try to grow them out quicker by little tweaks in the feed and such. I'm not against big corporations, but I know there is a distinct difference in "homegrown" pork, beef, chicken, goat and sheep as well.

I'm not an anti or anything but I know both sides of the coin. I grew up on a farm, am still a farmer, and studied agriculture in college. I'm so country sometimes my students think I'm my own cousin. :heh:

I know what it's like to be the little guy and also have experience playing with the big boys, so to speak, as I've also been a contract poultry grower for a large poultry integrator. I know the chickens I had a hand in producing for the chicken giant were "factory" chickens and did not compare at all to the ones PawPaw raised in the coop or free ranged on the farm.

There are some regulations that are unrealistic that have been imposed on small farmers and they cannot compete due to the economics of the situation. So, they are forced to sell their livestock at a stockyard and then send it to a feedlot, then a packer, etc.
 
Actually, there is some research that suggests that we currently produce more food than we eat, which means we don't need the ability to produce as much food as we currently do. There are also ongoing studioes that are beginning to show that organinc and tilth oriented production can actually meet the same production amounts as commercial agriculture now produces. It is, in fact, that we prefer to have convenience and cost as prmary determinants of what we buy, as opposed to taste.

I would also propose that we, as a population, have become increasingly enamoured of food that does not taste good. If you look at things such as beer, you can see that the general population actually prefer mediocre beer to fine crafted beers. This is the same as meat, I can't tell you how many folks I feed pasture raised and finished beef or pork to only to hear the complaint that the meat tastes bloody, gamey or rotten. Inside I think...'it's farking meat! It is supposed to have blood!...but we are used to eating pablum in all aspects of our lives.

Screw the concept that the government has somehow colluded with big business to feed us garbage. We buy it. Here is an idea, let's all not buy the garbage that they sell us. I guarantee you, once the mega-marts start seeing their sales drop, things will change. Can't afford $10 per pound meat? Quit eating so much meat, eat less, eat quality, eat local and see how the market changes. Will this ever happen, no, because we have become a culture of entitlement, and I don't just mean kids or liberals etc...I mean all of use, we think it is normal to have a $3000 cooker in our backyard, we blame the preacher for out churches dying, we think we have a right to drive $50,000 pickups to the school to pick up one child etc...

Am I guilty of this, heck ya! I am not any different, except I accept my role, I don't blame the government, liberals, Fox news, the President, the Europeans etc...I do blame Bigabyte, but, he taught me to rant. We are getting exactly what we want and buy.

Amen!!!! Just think what two generations ago had, I'm 33, compared to now. It's amazing. We stuff our selfs with crap, spend out moneyn on stupid stuff and then complain about food pricing.

I have a feeling The USA is about to get a rude wake up call. I for one am happy to go back to a simpler way if life and am in the process of doing just that.
 
I think that most consumers don't care that much about quality. Lots of people will pay lip service to it, but if there was ribeye for $6.99 and another grass fed one for, say $9.99 per pound, I'd think that most would settle for the cheaper option.

Competing for rock bottom prices at the stores as well as maximizing profits for the company and shareholders doesn't leave much for quality, as many of you have explained above.

The corn subsidies certainly aren't helping, certainly, but the quality of the products we see at stores are what happens when the pencil pushers and bean counters dictate corporate policies, not a farmer who cares about his product and does what is needed to put out something he is PROUD OF.

It's the difference between Chili's babyback ribs and what you can make yourself in your own smoker. One's caring about the bottom line. The other puts love into what they make, price and labor be damned up to their own limits.
 
I think that most consumers don't care that much about quality. Lots of people will pay lip service to it, but if there was ribeye for $6.99 and another grass fed one for, say $9.99 per pound, I'd think that most would settle for the cheaper option.

Competing for rock bottom prices at the stores as well as maximizing profits for the company and shareholders doesn't leave much for quality, as many of you have explained above.

The corn subsidies certainly aren't helping, certainly, but the quality of the products we see at stores are what happens when the pencil pushers and bean counters dictate corporate policies, not a farmer who cares about his product and does what is needed to put out something he is PROUD OF.

It's the difference between Chili's babyback ribs and what you can make yourself in your own smoker. One's caring about the bottom line. The other puts love into what they make, price and labor be damned up to their own limits.
AMEN. Preach on Brotha Steve!
 
Honesly my shoulders & brisket don't even get salt & pepper while cooking. I do S&P a good steak & make my own dry rubs for ribs...
 
I would say that if the idea of the government causing the deterioration of the taste of food has to do with what they allow, as opposed to some regulation that causes meat producers to lower quality, I can see the point as well. Terry, restated as you just did, I see your point.

There is certianly a reasoned statement that if we were actually told, in simple terms, what is in our food, there might be more of a out cry for better food. I think the reality of what goes into much of our mainstream food supply would horrify some folks into action, but, I still believe many would just accept that this is what is needed to survive.

This. This is how my wife reacted, she eats crappy food. Nay, she LOVES to eat crappy food. She has me make her hamburgers with a Mickey D's ripoff seasoning, because that's what her parents raised her on, crappy food. I make homemade pizzas, she loves them... but she still needs a Tombstone to get that crappy fix every couple of months or so. She'll want burgers the way I make them too, but she HAS to have her option of a flat pressed P.O.S tasting burger, and her re-hydrated de-hydrated onions.

I started showing her what is actually going down with this fast food pizza chain/burger joints/Taco Bell garbage, and she freaked out at me basically. Told me I was going to ruin food for her, so she just stopped.
As that bald guy in The Matrix said to that dork in a phone booth, "Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?" Nobody wants to find out the truth, because this chit doesn't kill them... not outright anyway, so it works for them. So much of it is nostalgia it's disgusting, but that's the reality of it.

On the bright side my wife has allowed me to not raise our kids with this mindset. All that scares the living crap out of me is that they'll "rebel" when they move on out and freak out on fast food until the end of days, and 69 cents a pound pork chops... maybe with a can of creamed corn.

....Gross.
 
I think these are probably not as healthy as they used to be.
chocchipspancakesaus.jpg


Kidding aside, whenever I can, I pony up for local/pastured/organic/etc. meat - mainly because I figure if I have a good enough piece of meat, it's hard to fark it up. It takes skill and patience to make a chitty piece of meat taste good. Also, I figure the larger producers aren't really concerned about raising quality meat - just "good enough to get by" meat. I'm reasonably sure their main concern is the bottom line and quality suffers as a result. I am also reasonably sure they engage in wasteful and unsustainable practices. I'd rather not support that. I would rather support those who take pride in the quality of what they produce and the methods by which they produce it. I can't support these folks every time I buy meat, but fortunately I can do it fairly often.
 
My uncle was a rancher, here was his take:

1. People wanted leaner cuts of beef and pork, in the 60's and going forward, the push was for leaner cattle. Fat ,means flavor, leaner cattle means less flavorful meat.
2. People wanted to get the meat at a cheap price, great beef costs more to raise, better feed, better management and longer time on the hoof.
3. People wanted meat that looked and met with their expectations, which meant red, lean, boneless. He felt that what most folks wanted was a animal that was 100% round.
4. Corporations drove the market and people perceptions, a fatter animal takes longer to bring to market and has more waste, a largely lean animal proviodes more profit per carcass. They also wanted meat that came and turned faster at lower cost, again, fat goes south faster than lean, it looks worse and tastes worse in a short period of time.


I am a cattle rancher, I couldn't agree more. Supply ( on the shelf meat ) is determined by demand (customers' needs). And sometimes good marketing can sway customers desires. Now I know its more complicated than just one phrase. But we have raised a lot of cattle for our own consumption over my familys' history, and generally a better quality meat. Some stinkers however, like last years holtein. Woof, that cow tasted bad!
 
Excellent post. Eating less meat and of higher quality will be good for me in the long run. Things to think about: getting more info on organic and natural food production; check out meat grinders; talk to family members about buying in quantity from local food producers. Y'all got me started here...
 
we have raised a lot of cattle for our own consumption over my familys' history, and generally a better quality meat. Some stinkers however, like last years holtein. Woof, that cow tasted bad!

How's that happen? And do you just mean gamey - or something worse?
 
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