Pork shoulder - baste or not?

[bigabyte]

Well hello Mr. Smartypants.:roll:

 

[landarc]

tilapia!

On edit: due to Guerry telling me I am to stay on topic...

I was taught several/many different techniques for roasting from both a home and professional aspect. One of the assumptions I had made and was disabused of was the idea that it was the application of heat that created the browing of meat. I had assumed that the now famous (thanks Alton) Maillard Effect was due to heat alone. Then I was taught to roast in salt and then to roast 'en papillote' and I discovered you can overcook a piece of meat, have it appear wan and pale and do this at many temperatures.

It turns out that some form of fat and direct contact of the convective heat is needed to create the browning of the meat surface. If you have conductive heat, or radiant (infra-red) heat, directly focused on a piece of food, you can achieve the same without the fat. But, warmed air simply does not behave in the same manner. The act of basting with a fat enhances the browing when roasting using convective heat. One of the reasons the technique I was taught as "French roasting' which is not commonly called 'pan-roasting' is so popular is that it used conductive heating to create an intense browning (caramelization) of the meat surface, while using the more gentle convective heat to slowly heat the meat to desired IT.

How does this translate to basting, it has lead us to believe that it is necessary for a properly cooked piece of meat. Mindless adherence to a philosphy, based upon a technique with differences from the technique now being used. We assume because we have always basted, that we must baste now. This doesn't actually lead to a better result. In many cases we are tied to traditions and ideas that simply exist because it is how we have always done it. Now, to Terry's rotiserie pork, that works because the meat is turning, the fat actually does, in a manner, baste the roast as it cooks. But, if you look at the surface, there will be differences in how the bark appears. This is, in part, because he is using infra-red heat, radian and working on the meats surface directly. It is not at all an indirect method, hence basting actually occurs naturally and has a benefit for the meat being cooked.

 

[Gore]

Ok, seriously, here is what I do.
1. Get my pit going about 10:00pm. I'm aiming for 200*.
2. Prep the meat and toss it on at 11:00pm.
3. Go to sleep. Well, sometimes I will have a drink with my wife, but I always get a good night sleep. I might not get up until 10:00am. I'm a lazy farker though. Note, this is why I cook at 200* -- I like to sleep! Even with a cos, I can keep my fire going this long at 200*.
4. When I get up, the meat will be in the stall and looking good. I wrap in foil and maybe crank up the heat a bit.
5. I may not check for a couple hours. Usually it is done around noon. I toss it in a cooler until it is dinner time and pull.

Yeah, I can cook it hotter or baste or whatever, but this requires the absolute minimal effort and the result is just as good. Besides, if you've ever seen me, you'd know I need all the beauty sleep I can get. :thumb:

 

[landarc]

I have seen you.

 

[Skidder]

This is my way. Rinse meat,dry rub drop into a disposable pan then when it hits 160 to 170 internal meat temp. I add 1/4 to 1/3 cup of grape juice and foil the pan. cook until done remove from pan let cool and pull in the mean time I take all the juices (very rich flavor) put in a container in fridge and cool remove floating fat and add to the meat and mix. I also add a bit more dry rub to the meat that didn't see any. Grape juice gives a nice rich flavor to the meat. The reason why I use the pan is because of the thick fat and skin to me isn't going to get smoke anyways. Just be safe when using the disposable type pans there flimsy. This is why I don't mop.

 

[laveen1]

Ok, seriously, here is what I do.
1. Get my pit going about 10:00pm. I'm aiming for 200*.
2. Prep the meat and toss it on at 11:00pm.
3. Go to sleep. Well, sometimes I will have a drink with my wife, but I always get a good night sleep. I might not get up until 10:00am. I'm a lazy farker though. Note, this is why I cook at 200* -- I like to sleep! Even with a cos, I can keep my fire going this long at 200*.
4. When I get up, the meat will be in the stall and looking good. I wrap in foil and maybe crank up the heat a bit.
5. I may not check for a couple hours. Usually it is done around noon. I toss it in a cooler until it is dinner time and pull.

Yeah, I can cook it hotter or baste or whatever, but this requires the absolute minimal effort and the result is just as good. Besides, if you've ever seen me, you'd know I need all the beauty sleep I can get. :thumb:

I thought about an overnight cook but I don't have enough experience with this WSM to just set and forget. I can just picture finding a shriveled, charred, mass of ?? in the morning, or an undercooked piece of UNCURED pork that sat in the bad temperature range for hours.

The shoulder has a GREAT fat cap. Marbling doesn't look like a butt, but it's ok. I'm just going with RCW and P. Lot's of water in the pan & watch the grill temp (the lid temp is now up to 160 with NO FIRE). When I cook tomorrow I'll probably have to keep the cooker shaded for temp control.

 

[landarc]

Maybe you can wrap some cardboard with aluminum foil and create a reflector/concentrator and get the temperature up to a stable 250F with just solar heat. Who needs charcoal?

 

[laveen1]

This is my way. Rinse meat,dry rub drop into a disposable pan then when it hits 160 to 170 internal meat temp. I add 1/4 to 1/3 cup of grape juice and foil the pan. cook until done remove from pan let cool and pull in the mean time I take all the juices (very rich flavor) put in a container in fridge and cool remove floating fat and add to the meat and mix. I also add a bit more dry rub to the meat that didn't see any. Grape juice gives a nice rich flavor to the meat. The reason why I use the pan is because of the thick fat and skin to me isn't going to get smoke anyways. Just be safe when using the disposable type pans there flimsy. This is why I don't mop.

What grill temp? How long (guess) for a 6.5 lb shoulder?

 

[laveen1]

Maybe you can wrap some cardboard with aluminum foil and create a reflector/concentrator and get the temperature up to a stable 250F with just solar heat. Who needs charcoal?

In a couple of months we'll have 115-125F. With the sun almost directly overhead I doubt I would need a reflector. The black body on the WSM just soaks up those rays.

 

[bigabyte]

Honestly, my recommendation for people just starting out, especially while they are still learning to control their cooker, is to just make the most simple pulled pork possible.

Just put some rub on the butt while you wait for the cooker to fire up, and when you have the cooker at the temp you want, just put it in there. Then learn your cooker. Keep the temps where you want it. Cook the butt until it is probe tender, or the bone can be pulled out with no resistance. Let it rest before pulling, then pull and enjoy.

The reason I say this because if anything goes wrong, it will not be hard to figure out. If you are not only learning your cooker, but also woried about injections, marinades, brines, slathers, mops, bastes, pans, foil, etc, you're just going to make it harder on yourself, and if something goes wrong you're most likely not going to be very sure what caused it.

Beleive it or not, a simply cooked butt, with just rub and properly applied smoke and heat, is damn good. It doesn't NEED all that other stuff. It's just plain good as it is.

After you nail this, and have your cooker figured out, start changing things one at a time. Add this or that. But just one thing at a time. This way you will know if it truly made things better or not.

 

[laveen1]

Honestly, my recommendation for people just starting out, especially while they are still learning to control their cooker, is to just make the most simple pulled pork possible.

Just put some rub on the butt while you wait for the cooker to fire up, and when you have the cooker at the temp you want, just put it in there. Then learn your cooker. Keep the temps where you want it. Cook the butt until it is probe tender, or the bone can be pulled out with no resistance. Let it rest before pulling, then pull and enjoy.

The reason I say this because if anything goes wrong, it will not be hard to figure out. If you are not only learning your cooker, but also woried about injections, marinades, brines, slathers, mops, bastes, pans, foil, etc, you're just going to make it harder on yourself, and if something goes wrong you're most likely not going to be very sure what caused it.

Beleive it or not, a simply cooked butt, with just rub and properly applied smoke and heat, is damn good. It doesn't NEED all that other stuff. It's just plain good as it is.

After you nail this, and have your cooker figured out, start changing things one at a time. Add this or that. But just one thing at a time. This way you will know if it truly made things better or not.

I agree with you 100%.:thumb: I'll post some PRON tomorrow.

 

[El Ropo]

I like to cut off all the skin and fat on a picnic roast. More bark area which would just be pulled off with the skin, instead of sticking to the meat.

For cooking technique, I get the cooker stable showing thin blue smoke in the 250 degree area, toss on prepped and rubbed picnic straight out of the fridge (no room temp warm up, this helps with smoke ring coloring). After first hour at the lower temp, will crank up cooker to 300ish for the remainder of the cook. When I can hear the intense sizzling sound (this happens during the stall) start to die down, that is the first time I'll open up the cooker to check for "done" using poke, probe, or bone wiggle test.

By leaving it closed the whole time, I always end up with a shorter cook time, and wonderfully moist product. All of the spritzing, foiling, mopping, peeking for pics just extends the cook time, and I love my sleep too.

 

[caseydog]

I usually don't do anything but pub my butts.

However, I am ding cuban style butt tomorrow, and will marinade it in a mojo overnight and braise it in the WSM.

Pork butt is very versatile, and easy to cook, with or without liquids.

CD

 

[razrbakcrzy]

not....


Jim Boston
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Skidder]

What grill temp? How long (guess) for a 6.5 lb shoulder?

when I do shoulders I don't even look at my smoker temp. I concern more on the internal meat temp. shoulders are way to forgiving for me to care about pit temps. you cook it to the correct temp it will pull. Guess at done temp. no can do there all different depending on fat and how the animal was raised etc.

 

[El Ropo]

when I do shoulders I don't even look at my smoker temp. I concern more on the internal meat temp. shoulders are way to forgiving for me to care about pit temps. you cook it to the correct temp it will pull. Guess at done temp. no can do there all different depending on fat and how the animal was raised etc.

Ehhhhh! I beg to differ. Every pig is different and will be done at vastly different temps dependent on cooking temp, and what the particular pig was doing/eating before harvest. They might be probe tender "done" at 185 (rare, but it has been known to happen), or they might not be "done" till 205+++ (rare again, but it does happen). Poke, probe, or bone wiggle is the only way to truly know on this type of meat cut.

Maybe your post wasn't clearly worded, but it appears to be making the statement that cooking temp doesn't matter, but if you pull if off at a pre-determined internal temp, it'll pull. I've never found that to be the case.

 

[landarc]

I get this out of Skidders post:

When I am cooking a shoulder, I do not worry too much about the temperature I am cooking at, as that temperature is not as important with a cut of meat that is as forgiving as pork shoulder. I am more concerned with internal temperature of the pork, but, you can only guess as to what the correct temperature will be as each piece of meat will differ. Depending on a lot of variables, hog origin, feed, fat levels etc...you cannot know a single ineternal temperature to pull at.

 

[Gore]

I get this out of Skidders post:

When I am cooking a shoulder, I do not worry too much about the temperature I am cooking at, as that temperature is not as important with a cut of meat that is as forgiving as pork shoulder. I am more concerned with internal temperature of the pork, but, you can only guess as to what the correct temperature will be as each piece of meat will differ. Depending on a lot of variables, hog origin, feed, fat levels etc...you cannot know a single ineternal temperature to pull at.

In my experience I'd tend to agree. I've done butts, same size, side-by-side and gotten completely different results -- not bad, but just different. All the more reason to sleep. Incidentally, one of my first cooks was pork butt and overnight. It's not a big deal and a heck of a lot less stressful than worrying about whether your dinner it going to be ready at a reasonable time.

 

[capt. beef o'pork]

This is on right now, about 4-5 hrs at this point. Just turned it, and it is starting to sweat pretty good. Gonna give it another round of smoke for the ol' $ muscle (notice $m is open a little)...no baste here, pork has enough fat. I trimmed a 1/4 lb of fat off this one.

http://m1163.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/beefopork/photobucket-29770-1335043154759.jpg.html?o=0

http://m1163.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/beefopork/photobucket-1457-1335043117530.jpg.html?o=1

 

[El Ropo]

Well, I guess I just missed a couple words in skidder's post there, cuz his point is almost identical to my point. Just didn't comprehend the shorthand or something.

:sorry: