No judges "Doggie Bags" at Red, White, and BBQ

[mobow]

Sam's doesn't allow coolers.:roll: Keith

 

[Podge]

Sam's doesn't allow coolers.:roll: Keith

If you're judging at the finals ( I see MCBJ in your signature) and IF I make it past the regionals, I'll be more than happy to give you some leftovers.

 

[Sawdustguy]

This comment makes me chuckle. I hope you were just joking.

If there are no TEAMS, there is no contest. Anyone with a pulse can judge BBQ. Anyone with a pulse and $75 can be a CBJ.

I would say we need them more than they need us.

If that is true, and it pretty much is. Why not just pick people off the street and ask them to Judge? Cooks are going to bitch (I include myself) anyway. Lets have something meaningful to bitch about.

The other possibility is to have professional BBQ judges. They would go through an intensive judge training course (much more than the curent hour course), they would be tested and have to do with an apprenticeship and be paid when the finished the training. They can be rated and evaluated, the whole nine yards because they at that point are professionals, they are getting paid for a service. Something $30 to $50 per contest sounds fair. It would raise contest entry fees but you may get a fairer shake. One thing is for sure there is no free lunch.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

The illusion of a higher standard?:boxing::tongue:

Or maybe, just maybe the desire to have more experienced judges.

"More experienced" does not always equate to "better"

 

[mobow]

If you're judging at the finals ( I see MCBJ in your signature) and IF I make it past the regionals, I'll be more than happy to give you some leftovers.

I'm not judging. But thanx for the offer and good luck too you on the path to grand champion. My post was just an attempt to bring things back on topic. Keith

 

[Smokin' Gnome BBQ]

WAIT JUST ONE MINUTE!!!!! so you guys are all saying that some judges put left overs in those coolers???? I thought they were full of beer!:wacko:

 

[Arlin_MacRae]

I have to say that I've judged turn-ins that may not have been cooked by someone with a pulse. Anybody off the street can pay the entry fee and throw some meat on the grate...

 

[motoeric]

This comment makes me chuckle. I hope you were just joking.

If there are no TEAMS, there is no contest. Anyone with a pulse can judge BBQ. Anyone with a pulse and $75 can be a CBJ.

This comment is representative of the attitude that fosters an unwanted division between judges and teams.

There's some strange elitism here that has no place in BBQ. Contests are comprised of three elements - the teams, the judges and the organizers. Each is needed to hold a contest.

Anyone with an entry fee, a grill and some meat can be a competitor. Anyone with an open lot and a list of teams/judges can be an organizer.

I know many, MANY judges that travel long distances, pay their own tolls/gas/hotel, arrive early, bring food for the food drives being held, take their jobs extremely seriously and are thankful for the experience.

To minimize the role that they play is ludicrous.

Eric

 

[Smokedelic]

To minimize the role that they play is ludicrous.
Eric

To minimize the fact that no one has ever failed a CBJ class and that all you have to do to become a CBJ is to write a check to KCBS and spend 4 hours on a Saturday learning to spot kale and red-tipped lettuce in a box is even more ludicrous.:wink:

You may be surprised to learn that there are BBQ organizations out there that do just fine using people off the street to judge BBQ at contests, instead of judges that have gone through a rigorous certification process.

 

[Arlin_MacRae]

You may be surprised to learn that there are BBQ organizations out there that do just fine using people off the street to judge BBQ at contests, instead of judges that have gone through a rigorous certification process.

Perhaps you'd be better off competing in those organizations? Or, if you want to stay in KCBS, try comps like Stillwater's where they use those highly-rated and purely objective "celebrities" instead of judges.

 

[Iamarealbigdog]

Yes there are judges out there who are only interested in a BBQ feed and how much they can get, the scoring is secondary. Thank goodness this is the rarity and not the norm.

However, if nibbling is the issue then make that the issue, not the take out box (cooler).

Hold judges accountable as well as the sanctioning body. Judges names should be on the score card and that card returned to teams. Bad judges will eventually get singled out. It is amazing how much time and consideration a judge will spend scoring when the teams see a name attached.

Where the problem lies in the process, if a table captain notices nibbling he should report the judge to the Rep. Once validated, the Rep remind the Judge of his duty and if the issue persist then suspend the judge's credentials until they take a refresher class.

It is not fair to lambaste all judges for the actions for a few.

As an organizer, a competitor and a head judge (CSBBQA) I would rather a judge put food in a cooler for later, then try to eat the whole sample. We promote the three bite rule but sometimes it's hard for them to stop there on a really good product.

I also support the organizers right to limit the coolers when the HD gets involved, their rules come first.

Just food for thought....

 

[Cayman1]

I really have no problem with food being taken home by the judges or volunteers, if the judges give each entry a fair sampling. My concern with a nibbler is the same as for a judge that cleans the meat to the bone. What impression does that give to the other judges about that entry. A nibble might convey the impression that the sample wasn't very good and if another judge sees that, it might influence his/her decision in the judging of that entry. The converse is also true of a sample that is completely consumed.

You can regulate any issue to death. I personally think each entry from a team should be judged by a different judge. Who's to say that if a team has a bad day in chicken and a judge scores them down because of it, and rightly so, that if that judge is than to judge that teams ribs, he/she might not have a more negative impression of the ribs simply because the chicken was not good.

Having said this, I think KCBS, the organizers I have been around, and the majority of the judges are doing everything they can to promote a fair contest. Hey, the contest is run by humans, not computers.

 

[hamiltont]

You can regulate any issue to death. I personally think each entry from a team should be judged by a different judge. Who's to say that if a team has a bad day in chicken and a judge scores them down because of it, and rightly so, that if that judge is then to judge that teams ribs, he/she might not have a more negative impression of the ribs simply because the chicken was not good.

You've never judged a KCBS Sanctioned event have you...

- Every event I've judged makes sure that each team's entry is judged at a different table.
- The judges have no clue who turned in what. The boxes are renumbered at turn in using a sort of algorithm to eliminate that possibility.

 

[Smokedelic]

Perhaps you'd be better off competing in those organizations? Or, if you want to stay in KCBS, try comps like Stillwater's where they use those highly-rated and purely objective "celebrities" instead of judges.

I'm good where I'm at, thanks!

Oh....and Stillwater is a perfect example of how good teams still win despite the lack of CBJs, thank you for bringing that up.:thumb:

 

[ModelMaker]

To minimize the fact that no one has ever failed a CBJ class and that all you have to do to become a CBJ is to write a check to KCBS and spend 4 hours on a Saturday learning to spot kale and red-tipped lettuce in a box is even more ludicrous.:wink:

You may be surprised to learn that there are BBQ organizations out there that do just fine using people off the street to judge BBQ at contests, instead of judges that have gone through a rigorous certification process.

Ya know your completely correct, no one has ever failed the KCBS judges certification, that's because it's not a test. The certification process simply provides a groundwork for learning the rules and procedures for judging a KCBS BBQ competition. Are you a good BBQ judge after the 4 hour class? Obviously not. Are you a good judge after 5 contests, 10 contests, NO!
Are you a BBQ judge that is learning through experience and effort,YES.
I feel kinda bad for the teams that suffered through the 2003 IA State BBQ contest, it was my first and I was not the judge I am now. I remember thinking "Wow when am I going to see a bad entry" I scored stupidly high and cooks that didn't deserve a high score shined that day.
Now after probably 40ish contests (I quit counting after 30) I'm confident that my pallet and adherence to KCBS rules and procedure make me a valuable asset to the KCBS family. You want me to judge your entry. I score using all numbers from 2 to 9. I don't flinch in giving you a 6 if your meat is "AVERAGE" but rest assured I can and do hand out 9's for excellent BBQ.
So quit condemning the process. If you want to become a good KCBS CBJ you simply need to desire it to be so. It's the individual that is or is not a good BBQ judge. Like I said earlier, if you see a truly crappy judge next to you at the table, do something about it.
Things don't get better by themselves.
Ed

 

[Cayman1]

The boxes are renumbered at turn in using a sort of algorithm to eliminate that possibility.

That's not what the contest rep told me at the last comp. Box number is different than team number but the box number stays the same from then on. I have never seen any different numbers placed on boxes when turned in. They are stacked till they get 6 then taken to the judges.

 

[hamiltont]

That's not what the contest rep told me at the last comp. Box number is different than team number but the box number stays the same from then on. I have never seen any different numbers placed on boxes when turned in. They are stacked till they get 6 then taken to the judges.

Boxes are renumbered at turn in and each entry (Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket) are judged at different tables. I don't know how much fairer that could be....

 

[Cayman1]

You are right, if it is worked that way. Just going by what I was told.

 

[bignburlyman]

I really have no problem with food being taken home by the judges or volunteers, if the judges give each entry a fair sampling. My concern with a nibbler is the same as for a judge that cleans the meat to the bone. What impression does that give to the other judges about that entry. A nibble might convey the impression that the sample wasn't very good and if another judge sees that, it might influence his/her decision in the judging of that entry. The converse is also true of a sample that is completely consumed.

You can regulate any issue to death. I personally think each entry from a team should be judged by a different judge. Who's to say that if a team has a bad day in chicken and a judge scores them down because of it, and rightly so, that if that judge is than to judge that teams ribs, he/she might not have a more negative impression of the ribs simply because the chicken was not good.

Having said this, I think KCBS, the organizers I have been around, and the majority of the judges are doing everything they can to promote a fair contest. Hey, the contest is run by humans, not computers.

I don't know if I am a good CBJ, I hope that I am. As far as another judge influencing my score by whether they eat only a nibble or the whole sample, I wouldn't know, I never even look at the other judges, I concentrate on the samples in front of me. I pick up the sample, sniff it, maybe squeeze it or pull on it (pork & brisket), bite it (a good size bite), chew, and consider. Most samples I will take a second bite and consider my scoring while I chew. I write the score, then I cleanse my pallatte, swish my mouth with water, then move on to the next sample.

I have table captained several times and have never seen a judge checking out the other judges faces to see if they like or dislike a sample.

 

[bignburlyman]

That's not what the contest rep told me at the last comp. Box number is different than team number but the box number stays the same from then on. I have never seen any different numbers placed on boxes when turned in. They are stacked till they get 6 then taken to the judges.

Boxes are renumbered at turn in and each entry (Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket) are judged at different tables. I don't know how much fairer that could be....

Every contest I have table captained it is STRESSED to not get the same number box for your table. There is even a sheet of paper given to the table captain to write down the box numbers you get, then cross those numbers off a list of the numbers (1 to 75 i think). At a contest with lower number teams it may be impossible to never duplicate a number. I am not a math whiz, but with 24 teams and 4 judging tables (24 judges) you should be able to have each box judged by a table only once. It takes a little effort and waiting for all the entries to make sure you don't duplicate but it is the way it is done. If there are only 3 tables of judges (18 judges) you will have some entries judged by the same table.

Edit to add: This is for KCBS only, I have never attended another sanctioned contest than KCBS.