THE BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS

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Gotta agree with Chris and Steph on this one Neil...more meat...less green! Hey...come on up to our place the end of April...we are having our first PNWBA "no garnish" two day comp! The judges have NO choice but to judge the meat...should be interesting!
 
And from the East German Judge:

Chicken - 4 - my first thought was "someone turned in their pork box by mistake" Second though: Someone turned in their Chinese chicken lunch. It might be a function of how dark the photo is but it looks thrown in the box, hidden in the greens, way over sauced, and not appealing on any level.

Ribs - 6 - They're just, there. Nothing about them makes me want to pick one up. Average take out ribs.

Brisket - 7 - Again the tint to the picture might skew this a bit. Better than average effort. Brush marks and black spot on the the first slice. looks like saw marks on a couple of slices (could be brush marks). Some ragged cuts and crumbs up on the bark. Nice overall color and nice bark.
 
Never apologize for your opinion, especially if I ask for it.

Chicken - Isn't overcooked or undercooked a function of texture, not appearance? If it isn't bleeding or burnt, how can you assume it's overcooked or that I was hiding something? You should be judging on what is presented, not what you think it might be.

Ribs - If they have good color, perfect glaze and even cuts, what else do you need for WOW factor? What's missing?

Brisket - I had just sprayed with apple juice before taking that pic. We were in a very dry area. The black dot is a spec of black pepper. Again, how do you know this overcooked? Because some parts look juicier than others? Nothing is even in meat. It's organic material.

This is the reason I post my boxes. To challenge the judges out there and see what their thought processes are. You are supposed to judge on what is presented, ignore greens and smoke rings and not compare to something you have seen or tasted before.

Ok...You want the cooks response, her fit is...The reason I participate in these online judging threads is because I am a cook continuing to get better.:help: In this case I did judge based on the presentation, I did ignore the greens and smoke ring. You got scored based on what you presented.:noidea:

Now I will put my "as pit master our product has to be perfect because we can't afford to loose another one":first::first: hat on and give you the super anal feedback I ask my home testers to give me when practicing boxes at home :loco: aka the unedited East Coast version:cop::spy:

Chicken: You presented a small amount of heavily sauced pulled chicken. Over sauced and not enough meat is what gains the score. That is not appealing for a professional competition quality bbq chicken presentation.]

Ribs: Forget the wow factor description. What is missing is a complete presentation of the ribs. You are only presenting the top side and that is not enough. Why block four sides with garnish and instead present it in such a way so that more of it can be seen. In addition take a close look at the top side you are presenting. From center left the ribs are more dry and from center right they are more wet. The appearance is inconsistent from rib to rib. That is what prevents the 8 from being a 9.

Brisket: Whether that first slice has 5 black specs of some organic material or 5 holes from probes/injectors or a combination of both; in either case it is far from natural looking and the fact that it has come up here is proof it is distracting from the appearance of the meat. In addition the brown splotches on the front slice and again on a slice further back are anything but natural and surely look like injection. Maybe it's just inconsistent sauce or worse, natural discoloration on your meat. It really doesn't matter what it is because it is certainly is not appealing.

:behindsofa:I hope you still feel the love:yield:...someday we will meat :argue:and I will bring the seafood :hungry:
 
Ok...You want the cooks response, her fit is...The reason I participate in these online judging threads is because I am a cook continuing to get better.:help: In this case I did judge based on the presentation, I did ignore the greens and smoke ring. You got scored based on what you presented.:noidea:

Now I will put my "as pit master our product has to be perfect because we can't afford to loose another one":first::first: hat on and give you the super anal feedback I ask my home testers to give me when practicing boxes at home :loco: aka the unedited East Coast version:cop::spy:

Chicken: You presented a small amount of heavily sauced pulled chicken. Over sauced and not enough meat is what gains the score. That is not appealing for a professional competition quality bbq chicken presentation.]

Ribs: Forget the wow factor description. What is missing is a complete presentation of the ribs. You are only presenting the top side and that is not enough. Why block four sides with garnish and instead present it in such a way so that more of it can be seen. In addition take a close look at the top side you are presenting. From center left the ribs are more dry and from center right they are more wet. The appearance is inconsistent from rib to rib. That is what prevents the 8 from being a 9.

Brisket: Whether that first slice has 5 black specs of some organic material or 5 holes from probes/injectors or a combination of both; in either case it is far from natural looking and the fact that it has come up here is proof it is distracting from the appearance of the meat. In addition the brown splotches on the front slice and again on a slice further back are anything but natural and surely look like injection. Maybe it's just inconsistent sauce or worse, natural discoloration on your meat. It really doesn't matter what it is because it is certainly is not appealing.

:behindsofa:I hope you still feel the love:yield:...someday we will meat :argue:and I will bring the seafood :hungry:


That's the kind of feedback I like. The kind that makes you uncomfortable and want to get better. I learned long time ago that I can love you and still disagree with you. Like I said before, I prefer honesty.
 
Did that with People's Choice. Phyllis left with an ass pocket full of money.

An ass pocket full of money is a good thing brother...but an ass pocket full of money with a trophy is better! A lot of good advice up there...:thumb::becky:
 
Ribs--8
I'm not a fan of 6 straight across, I like the angle better, consider 4 on 4 if you like the straight look, makes the box fuller.

Brisket--7
The thickness of the slices, first impression, leads me to believe it is over done and to get the slices to hold together they had to be cut that thick.

Ugh. Can't stand by and let the above pass, as both are perfect examples of failing to adhere to to KCBS judging criteria.

Ribs: It doesn't matter how you prefer to build a box. The judge's job is to evaluate the entry as presented. Perhaps there were other reasons for your score, but to mark appearance down because you would have preferred another arrangement is wrong.

Brisket: As judges, we are to score appearance based on what we can see in the box, not on guesses as to the cook's motivations. The slices could be thick simply because the cook wanted them that way and be perfectly tender. Same goes for speculation that sauce is hiding something, lack of garnish indicates a novice team, etc. Taste and tenderness comes later - save your thoughts on these criteria for that part of the scoring after you have actually put the sample in your mouth.

FWIW, in my experience, people are much more picky about scoring photos of boxes than seeing boxes live at the judging table. In the judging tent the light is often poor and you only have 2-5 seconds to view the box (which is often moving). Flecks of pepper or a small spot of sauce on the garnish are much less of a factor when you are under the gun than when you are studying an image at your leisure on a computer screen.
 
Chicken - As a judge, I'd take anyone's word that the meat is the correct meat until I taste it. Just based on the photo represented, I'd agree with the 7's. I don't care that it is pulled, I just care about the presentation at this point and it does look above average. That being said, I can see how at least one of the other 2 scores could get hurt by turning in a pulled chicken product.

Ribs - An 8, lower end of 8, but an 8 nonetheless. Sure, I want to see more meat....but I'm not judging on that. Sure I want to see less green, but I'm not judging that either. I wonder initially if there are an additonal X # of slices under those 6 ribs? Those ribs almost seem to be sitting high to me.
* Sidenote - As a cook, I like to turn in a shinier rib like some of the others.

Brisket - This is the one I had the most difficulty with. My first thoughts are that it was overly cooked, hence the thick slices. I agree with the others on that, BUT I would not judge down on that. Like another poster said, maybe you just wanted to slice them that thick. I'd judge this one as a 7 on appearance for these reasons: streaking/splotching on the face of the cuts, cuts look like they were placed randomly, possibly not in order of cutting (allowing the mind's eye to wander), possible injection holes, jagged cuts on the bark edges.

So to sum it up 7,8,7.

Keep in mind Neil, I'm a 2-time KCBS certified judge that has never judged a sanctioned event. I'm just a cook that used to cook competitively a lot more than I do now.

Hope some of that helps dude.

Aloha.
 
Ugh. Can't stand by and let the above pass, as both are perfect examples of failing to adhere to to KCBS judging criteria.

Ribs: It doesn't matter how you prefer to build a box. The judge's job is to evaluate the entry as presented. Perhaps there were other reasons for your score, but to mark appearance down because you would have preferred another arrangement is wrong.

Brisket: As judges, we are to score appearance based on what we can see in the box, not on guesses as to the cook's motivations. The slices could be thick simply because the cook wanted them that way and be perfectly tender. Same goes for speculation that sauce is hiding something, lack of garnish indicates a novice team, etc. Taste and tenderness comes later - save your thoughts on these criteria for that part of the scoring after you have actually put the sample in your mouth.

FWIW, in my experience, people are much more picky about scoring photos of boxes than seeing boxes live at the judging table. In the judging tent the light is often poor and you only have 2-5 seconds to view the box (which is often moving). Flecks of pepper or a small spot of sauce on the garnish are much less of a factor when you are under the gun than when you are studying an image at your leisure on a computer screen.

You are absolutely correct! I got burned out on the site as a moderator and chose to stay away for a long while. Then I drop in and offered my opinion on something that I am no longer in touch with.
 
As a competitor, i choose not to judge your box based on appearance as it may help you beat me in competition one day! :wink:
 
You are absolutely correct! I got burned out on the site as a moderator and chose to stay away for a long while. Then I drop in and offered my opinion on something that I am no longer in touch with.

No worries, brother.

I wasn't trying to slam you at all. I just think it's important to address misconceptions for any future judges who might end up reading this thread down the road. Thanks for your posts; they may help somebody else.

It's not easy being a judge and a cook, because we have a natural tendency to compare entries to the way we would have done it!

-GF
 
I am not a judge but here is my unprofessional opinion for what it is worth.

The chicken looks great but with all of the greens it looks out of proportion like you were running out, I think more chicken would help improve the overall look of the box to even things out.

I have to say the color on the ribs and the presetation looks very nice but I think the greens should go all the way around the ribs, I know that is hard with a limited amount of space. I like the carmalization and the glossy color that they have.

The brisket has a nice bark but don't see alot of a smoke ring. I dont know if it is just the picture or not but it looks a little grainy and dry but that might not be the case.

I am a firm believer you eat with your eyes first, and they do look good and I would love to be able to taste what it is like. I wouldn't score badly probably 7 for chicken 8 for ribs and 7 for brisket on looks but if the taste was spot on I would score up from there.
 
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