KCBS TOY Standings

[dmprantz]

I believe if you are going to compete in KCBS competitions you should probably be required to pay the $35 and be a KCBS member. Support the organization.

I discussed this with a past member of the board once, and he told me that the reason why KCBS can't or won't do that is that it would prevent them from being an official not for profit company. I suggested requiring higher entry fees for teams who aren't members, and some organizers do this, but it's not uniform. I feel that if KCBS would require organizers to pay more for non-members, they might more uniformly have that discount.

It is often said that there is a belief that requiring membership would eliminate KCBS comps from being qualifiers for The Jack and the ARI, but I've not seen any documentation whould substantiate that.

All of this against the back drop of the fact that teams already pay money to KCBS for every competition in which they compete. Shouldn't that money count for something?

Someone mentioned keeping track of TOY by membership number instead of team name. Sounds great to me! Maybe too simple. I must be missing something.

My understanding of this, and I could very well be wrong, is that requiring that puts a certain amount of onus on organizers to track KCBS numbers, and then to input that information into the scoring software. The current version of which may not support membership numbers. Then there's the issue of how to handle teams who aren't members. This then all goes back to an older topic of how to actually track teams, and what to do if the head cook isn't there. Like so many things, it's a complicated topic

dmp

 

[Smoke Ring]

The KCBS already has an IT consultant, and I believe he knows what he's doing. The issue is getting the majority of the BOD to agree with it.



This has been discussed in past board meetings, and there are "issues" which they feel need to be worked out. I'm sure one of our many board member brethren will correct me if/when I am wrong, but a lot of it has to do with how KCBScore works, how organizers keep track of teams/membership numbers, and the handling of non-member teams. Of course there's also the issue of a membership service, of only some teams should be able to take advantage, vs a competition service, of which all teams should be able to take advantage.

Personally, I would rather a software development organization handle this than a marketing organization.

dmp

KCBS no longer has an IT consultant. MMA made a power grab, pushed us out, and took over everything. The board didn't vote on it. It was an "executive decision" orchestrated by four board members who seem to be running things along with Mike McCloud. Their original plan was to do it without us even knowing, blindsiding us, until they figured out that wasn't possible. This was all decided in a secret session with MMA in attendance. MMA lied in the meeting blaming us for their incompetence. We had a proposal in place to import the scores and results from KCBScore and automatically calculate the TOY standings. We'll see how MMA does with that.

 

[dmprantz]

I'm sorry to hear that Garry. Sorry for you, and sorry for the KCBS membership as well.

dmp

 

[Scottie]

Speaking solely for myself, and not for KCBS or the board....

I think you can expect that to happen, but not immediately. I've spoken to Paul in the past and understand what his process was. Based on duplicate names, and spelling errors there was significant labor involved. At the present time, the office staff has enough to accomplish on a daily basis without adding this project to the mix.

When the new scoring software is in use, KCBS will have most of what is required in place to make the process efficient and accurate. It is an issue that has been discussed, and studied. I'd love to see it in place yesterday, but the tools/resources to make it efficient and accurate just aren't in place at this time. When those bases are covered I think you can expect it to happen relatively quickly.

You are starting to sound like a politician how you dance....

Running, ducking and changing my identity... :tape:

 

[Scottie]

Jorge, your disclaimer is getting old and annoying

Oh snap....

 

[Pappy Q]

I think it should be tracked and updated weekly by KCBS. Seems like a very basic service to be providing the paying membership. I voted for "change" in the last BOD election......sure hope it happens.

 

[Parts_Guy]

Speaking for myself, not Croatians, snowmobilers, vodka drinkers, nra , small column folks you might be right

Speaking as a Croatian, this made me laugh

 

[DawgPhan]

seems like there is enough IT smarts in the bbq world to improve the work flow...any interest in maybe putting some sort of group together to try and address things. I am not just talking KCBS but competition BBQ in general?

 

[QueNivorous]

seems like there is enough IT smarts in the bbq world to improve the work flow...any interest in maybe putting some sort of group together to try and address things. I am not just talking KCBS but competition BBQ in general?

Always an option but it sounds like there is at least some discussion regarding KCBS doing this. I think that's where it should be done since it adds credibility. For that matter I think each sanctioning body would want to publish their own standings.

 

[boogiesnap]

really? i mean if 1 dude could do it on his own for years does it warrant that much discussion?

 

[Jorge]

really? i mean if 1 dude could do it on his own for years does it warrant that much discussion?

Speaking solely for myself, not KCBS or the board....

I've talked to that "1 dude", and know what was involved for him. I also work in IT. Yes it was possible, but there was more time involved than KCBS should try to justify considering that our employees are paid (meaning we aren't exporting work overseas and paying pennies on the dollar). KCBS also picks up an added obligation for accuracy since we are talking about OUR ToY. If someone else makes an error, it doesn't carry any liability or responsibility. That should have no reflection of my opinion of Paul. I appreciate what he did, and the lengths he went to in order to be as accurate as possible. I have nothing but respect for him, his efforts, and what he accomplished over the years.

I'd love to roll out a complete and accurate list every Monday, but everything required to do it efficiently and accurately is NOT in place.

I'll apologize personally if that is inconvenient. I'd prefer to do it right, and deliver a quality product to membership the first time after everything required to accomplish that is in place. If you have questions, comments, or concerns please feel free to email me at my KCBS address contained in this thread.

 

[boogiesnap]

wait you're saying you can't justify having paid(by us mind you)employees to do what "1 dude" did for free?

c'mon man!

btw, IMHO, paul is one of the haulmarks of modern comp bbq.

is there another BOD member who won't just speak for themself but for the board weigh in here?

or will YOU weigh in as a board member with what YOU think and will do???

stop hiding behind that disclaimer. we voted you in.

 

[Jorge]

wait you're saying you can't justify having paid(by us mind you)employees to do what "1 dude" did for free?

c'mon man!

btw, IMHO, paul is one of the haulmarks of modern comp bbq.

is there another BOD member who won't just speak for themself but for the board weigh in here?

or will YOU weigh in as a board member with what YOU think and will do???

stop hiding behind that disclaimer. we voted you in.

speaking for myself, shoot me an email and I'll provide my cell #.

 

[Gowan]

Once we (hopefully) have serialized teams in the new scoring software, the data should all be solid and real-time tracking will be feasible. Until then, there are so many errors introduced with the existing system that relies on team names any attempt at automated tracking would be pointless.

 

[Pappy Q]

This comment is not directed at any particular BOD member but rather all.....there are always reasons and excuses why something can't be done. Those that make a difference refuse to accept the reasons and excuses, they instead find solutions and take action.

 

[Smoke Ring]

Once we (hopefully) have serialized teams in the new scoring software, the data should all be solid and real-time tracking will be feasible. Until then, there are so many errors introduced with the existing system that relies on team names any attempt at automated tracking would be pointless.

I've got news for you. The new system relies on team names also.

 

[Bourbon Barrel BBQ]

Speaking solely for myself, not KCBS or the board....

I've talked to that "1 dude", and know what was involved for him. I also work in IT. Yes it was possible, but there was more time involved than KCBS should try to justify considering that our employees are paid (meaning we aren't exporting work overseas and paying pennies on the dollar). KCBS also picks up an added obligation for accuracy since we are talking about OUR ToY. If someone else makes an error, it doesn't carry any liability or responsibility. That should have no reflection of my opinion of Paul. I appreciate what he did, and the lengths he went to in order to be as accurate as possible. I have nothing but respect for him, his efforts, and what he accomplished over the years.

I'd love to roll out a complete and accurate list every Monday, but everything required to do it efficiently and accurately is NOT in place.

I'll apologize personally if that is inconvenient. I'd prefer to do it right, and deliver a quality product to membership the first time after everything required to accomplish that is in place. If you have questions, comments, or concerns please feel free to email me at my KCBS address contained in this thread.

This isn't directed at you Jorge and I usually stay out of these threads but damn is there anything that the KCBS WILL take responsibility for? Anymore all I see is if there is anything that requires owning up and taking responsibility for the way something is done regarding membership the answer is simply don't do it. There will be no way we can screw it up if thats the route we take. This is a perfect opportunity to add a well received function to drive up membership. Add this to the members only section on kcbs.us and many people would be willing to get a membership for that alone.

 

[Jorge]

This isn't directed at you Jorge and I usually stay out of these threads but damn is there anything that the KCBS WILL take responsibility for? Anymore all I see is if there is anything that requires owning up and taking responsibility for the way something is done regarding membership the answer is simply don't do it. There will be no way we can screw it up if thats the route we take. This is a perfect opportunity to add a well received function to drive up membership. Add this to the members only section on kcbs.us and many people would be willing to get a membership for that alone.

Speaking solely for myself...everybody knows the rest at this point

No offense taken, and the clarification is appreciated.:mrgreen:

I'm not saying that we shouldn't do it, nor am I saying that we won't do it. I'm saying that right now we are not in a position to do it efficiently or economically with the resources that are currently available.

If we task staff with the project, it will be at the expense of existing duties. There are only so many hours in the work day. Published errors will lead to calls and emails to the office for corrections. Absolutely understandable, but another drain on office resources.

My point is that we have a more efficient option available to use when we have some things in place, and it will yield more accurate results. Accuracy is important, and arguably more important to KCBS than other third parties that have published results in the past. That's not criticism. I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for what Paul accomplished and shared, especially after talking to him about the process. KCBS has a duty, and obligation to provide the most accurate results possible because it is OUR ToY.

I also agree with you that it should be a benefit to membership and it is one that we want to provide, and I believe that we will when we can do it properly. Like many members, I wish we had that in place yesterday. That's not where we are right now, but we are working on it.

Thank you again, for taking the time to make it clear that you weren't addressing me individually. I recognized when I chose to run for the board that there would be times when there would be questions. That comes with the territory.

 

[Smoke Ring]

Does anyone ever speak FOR KCBS?

 

[YankeeBBQ]

wait you're saying you can't justify having paid(by us mind you)employees to do what "1 dude" did for free?

c'mon man!

btw, IMHO, paul is one of the haulmarks of modern comp bbq.

is there another BOD member who won't just speak for themself but for the board weigh in here?

or will YOU weigh in as a board member with what YOU think and will do???

stop hiding behind that disclaimer. we voted you in.

My opinion is your being an ass and oversimplifying things. I can make a motion next month and see if KCBS shares that opinion if you want.