KCBS Judging Class Info?

[KC_Bobby]

I didn't take anything home, some others did. Their was a little bit left, but not enough to bother with. That class has the same instructors as mine did last night, they'll let you take the food home in a turn in box if you wish. Just leave the cooler in the car for the ride home if you do take some food.

We judged 3 entries per catagory rather than 6 like a contest. But just a bit or two of the 12 samples (compared to 24) was enough to fill me up for dinner.

 

[DawgPhan]

I had some folks stop by and talk to me at the GON Outdoor Blast last weekend. They had just finished up the KCBS judging class in Canton, Ga and mentioned something about not eating chicken skin. Well of course that got my interest and we started talking...Now I dont know if it was how it was explain or a misunderstanding or what, but they both felt like they should be taking the skin off of every piece of chicken and tasting it seperately and then discarding it. They were also told that chicken skin was supposed to be crispy. Both of those statements seem at odds with the rulebook. These were folks that had issue with eating chicken skin, but just thought that was what you were supposed to do. As far as being instructed that chicken skin is supposed to be crispy, when did that start? Is that one of the KCBS standards like the "half moon" bite on a rib or the "slight tug" on a slice of brisket?

It just seemed odd to me given the fact that there have been other reports of judge trainees being told to remove the chicken skin and reps telling teams to cook skinless because the judges are told to pull it off anyway.

 

[KC_Bobby]

mentioned something about not eating chicken skin. Well of course that got my interest and we started talking...Now I dont know if it was how it was explain or a misunderstanding or what, but they both felt like they should be taking the skin off of every piece of chicken and tasting it seperately and then discarding it. They were also told that chicken skin was supposed to be crispy. Both of those statements seem at odds with the rulebook. These were folks that had issue with eating chicken skin, but just thought that was what you were supposed to do. As far as being instructed that chicken skin is supposed to be crispy, when did that start? Is that one of the KCBS standards like the "half moon" bite on a rib or the "slight tug" on a slice of brisket?

That's not what I heard from my instructor. They might want to clarify with their instructor or a KCBS rep before they judge again.

I heard something to the effect of "If the turn in is presented with skin, that's how the cook wants you to judge it. As a judge it's your duty to try the skin even if you do not normally eat it. You can discard the skin (rather than swallowing it) after you sample it for taste and texture, but don't score down on appearance, taste or tenderness because your personal preference is chicken without skin."

Our instructor also made it a point to make sure we knew that all judges are invited to retake the class at anytime (assuming they are in good standing with KCBS) for free as a refresher! This is something I think (as a cooker) should be mentioned by table captains and KCBS reps when appropriate to judges that turn in scores inconsistant with the rest of the table.

 

[ZBQ]

Good info.

Thanks KC_Bobby!!:-D

I didn't take anything home, some others did. Their was a little bit left, but not enough to bother with. That class has the same instructors as mine did last night, they'll let you take the food home in a turn in box if you wish. Just leave the cooler in the car for the ride home if you do take some food.

We judged 3 entries per catagory rather than 6 like a contest. But just a bit or two of the 12 samples (compared to 24) was enough to fill me up for dinner.

 

[Mo-Dave]

Our instructor also made it a point to make sure we knew that all judges are invited to retake the class at anytime (assuming they are in good standing with KCBS) for free as a refresher! This is something I think (as a cooker) should be mentioned by table captains and KCBS reps when appropriate to judges that turn in scores inconsistant with the rest of the table.

That sounds like an excellent idea.
Dave

 

[eurycea]

It just seemed odd to me given the fact that there have been other reports of judge trainees being told to remove the chicken skin and reps telling teams to cook skinless because the judges are told to pull it off anyway.

Back in July there was a thread on the Virtual Weber forum that talked about this. One person stated :
"I was taught at KCBS judging class to pull back the skin and take a bite of the chicken first. Then to make a mental note of what I would score the chicken as far as taste. Next to take a bite/taste of the skin. If the skin does nothing for the taste, then score it as it tasted for the first bite. If it added to the taste, add a point. If it distracted from the taste, deduct a point. Lastly, do not consider the toughness of the skin in scoring."

Another judge (WSM/Rich Langer) said he doesn't consider the skin in regards to scoring tenderness. Another person said that judges are instructed not to consider skin in regards to tenderness. I was never taught any of these things.

 

[HeSmellsLikeSmoke]

Back in July there was a thread on the Virtual Weber forum that talked about this. One person stated :
"I was taught at KCBS judging class to pull back the skin and take a bite of the chicken first. Then to make a mental note of what I would score the chicken as far as taste. Next to take a bite/taste of the skin. If the skin does nothing for the taste, then score it as it tasted for the first bite. If it added to the taste, add a point. If it distracted from the taste, deduct a point. Lastly, do not consider the toughness of the skin in scoring."

That person was me. Jerry Mullane was the instructor.

 

[eurycea]

That person was me. Jerry Mullane was the instructor

Isn't Jerry the one that is telling teams to turn in skinless chicken?

 

[HeSmellsLikeSmoke]

Isn't Jerry the one that is telling teams to turn in skinless chicken?

He said that chicken can be turned in either with or without skin, but as far as I remember, didn't express an opinion on which to turn in.

 

[eurycea]

I believe it was at a recent contest where he told teams that listened to the cd that they should turn in skinless chicken because the judges are told to disregard it. At least I think it was the Mullane's that did that.

 

[lunchlady]

I'm sorry but I don't believe that, unless it was in jest. Jerry is a fantastic instructor/rep.

If you didn't hear it FROM them personally, then you probably shouldn't be saying things like that. And if you did, then I apologize.

 

[eurycea]

I'm sorry but I don't believe that, unless it was in jest. Jerry is a fantastic instructor/rep.

If you didn't hear it FROM them personally, then you probably shouldn't be saying things like that. And if you did, then I apologize.

I didn't hear it from him. It strikes me as a stong conincidence that he's been accused of teaching something in class that nobody else seems to be in regards to chicken skin and he's accused of telling teams things in cooks meetings that nobody else seems to be in regards to chicken skin. The point of my question and statement was to point out that one of the reps and judge trainees that Dawgphan was talking about was the same person - Jerry.

I'll edit my statement.

Its been said that at a recent contest he told teams that listened to the cd that they should turn in skinless chicken because the judges are told to disregard it.

 

[HeSmellsLikeSmoke]

I didn't hear it from him. It strikes me as a stong conincidence that he's been accused of teaching something in class that nobody else seems to be in regards to chicken skin

Just to be clear. I did not accuse anyone of anything. I just passed on how I was taught to judge chicken. I have no idea what anyone else is teaching.

I totally agree with Michelle that Jerry is an excellent instructor and would encourage anyone to seek out one of his classes.

 

[LostNation]

The point of my question and statement was to point out that one of the reps and judge trainees that Dawgphan was talking about was the same person - Jerry.

Jerry has never taught a CBJ class in Georgia. I asked him about the chicken skin issue and he flat out denied it. Jerry is a close friend and a true friend of BBQ. Don't you think he deserves the benefit of the dought instead of believing something someone thought they heard, reported and was embellished on a Internet forum?

 

[DawgPhan]

Yeah I dont know who taught the class in Canton and I wasnt in the class. I was just relaying what the folks that took the class understood the rules to be after the class. The stating something a little different from what I believed the rule to be and it also jiving with some other reports about chicken skin and judges made an ear perk up...

It makes you wonder about the chicken category when it seems everyone spends so much time worrying about the skin...I wonder how I would do if I just turned i perfect chicken skin...

 

[Scottie]

Define "perfect".... I think that is the real problem...

Scottie

 

[eurycea]

Jerry has never taught a CBJ class in Georgia. I asked him about the chicken skin issue and he flat out denied it. Jerry is a close friend and a true friend of BBQ. Don't you think he deserves the benefit of the dought instead of believing something someone thought they heard, reported and was embellished on a Internet forum?

Dawgphan refered to "other reports". I have no reason to doubt what Jim said happened in his class. When I quoted Jim I had no idea Jerry was his teacher and when he said that he was I thought it was noteable since there have been other questions about him and chicken skin. I'm not trying to attack Jerry, I'm just pointing out that the instructor that Jim said told him to not consider chicken skin for judging tenderness is the same guy other people have said told teams that judges disregard chicken skin. Is it true? I don't know.

 

[KC_Bobby]

Define "perfect".... I think that is the real problem...

Scottie

that and:
1) what's said vs. how it is understood
3) how something is understood vs. how someone describes it to a 3rd party
3) how the first 3rd party understands a statment and proceeds with the information

Remember playing telephone in kindergarden? Same thing applies through many communication channels as adults.

 

[swamprb]

Took the KCBS Judging class from Jim Minion back in April.

Just got my CBJ badge and #22782
2 Comps judged so far.

3 cooking classes attended and at two of them(non KCBS) instructed us that judges prefer crisp skin and at the other gave instructions on how to do tender skin.

The two comps I've judged, I have yet to come across any skinless or crispy chicken.

My observations so far!

Brian