I gotta complain just a bit here......

[tony76248]

I will take IBCA scoring over KCBS any day of the week. The cream will rise to the top. Plus you won't have to hear the whining about getting stuck on a bad table.

 

[ModelMaker]

Oh Boo Hoo Hoo, I didn't get all nines and there was a very bad judge....
Man I'm tired of the whinning.
First off, I think there has been a enormous case of score creep the last couple years. "I should have gotten more 9's". Do you know how to get a 9 from me?
Work for it, 9's are the tops the very best, none better!! I don't think there are that many very bests at any given contest. Yes, I give 9's but they are deserving of my best score.
Secondly, a 6 means your entry was average, not crappy, not inedable. If a cook gets a 6 right away the dukes go up and they start looking for the terrible judge that gave them a "average" score. If your BBQ is average that ain't a bad thing.
Get better.
A 7 from me means your on your way to greatness.
An 8 means I considered your entry might be a 9 but maybe next time.
You get a 9 from me you earned it and are one of the best cooks that day.
It's not rocket science. Cook your best each event and I'll judge to the best of my ability each event.
Deal?
Ed

 

[RangerJ]

I will take IBCA scoring over KCBS any day of the week. The cream will rise to the top. Plus you won't have to hear the whining about getting stuck on a bad table.

Both have their merits but I'd rather have some idea as to why I walked or why I didn't walk. Pretty hard to improve your game if you don't have data to base it on.

 

[JimmyDAL]

Personally I think that there should always be comment cards, that way everyone can get a view as to what they are looking for. In the International Chili Society every Judge makes comments and I was amazed when I judged how many were more concerned about bringing home a cooler full. No Coolers and Doggie bags should be allowed. One Guy was so P****ed that after the brisket was turned in and he missed the leftovers that he got into his vehicle and drove off on the quick side.

 

[porkerfacebbq]

I think it is a 2 way street the judges should have to come out and cook with the teams, but I also think the cook teams should have to judge. I know the judges aren't out there all night cooking and not sleeping like a lot of us but they are still a important part of the sport. I agree with ford that the only real thing being certified means is that you gave a sanctioning body money. At the same time though it also means you are at least somewhat serious about being involved with BBQ as a competitive sport. Hey I say were all out there because we LOVE BBQ and we should all be having fun.



If BBQ is a sport does that make me a athlete?

 

[Bunny]

is judging bbq without every having cooked "competition bbq" similar to judging a beer without having ever brewed a beer or critiquing an album without ever haven't written a piece of music?

I'm not aware of too many things...I know what I know if you know what I mean. Pretty clear to me!

 

[Bunny]

Rich and I would like to know how many of the teams that are discussing this issue have actually taken a CBJ class ( we know some of you have)..and how many have judged without certification? Just wondering? After you have had certification....how many contests have you judged? Totally a different ball park. If you've taken the class and have never judged..you haven't actually judged.

 

[boogiesnap]

I'm not aware of too many things...I know what I know if you know what I mean. Pretty clear to me!

really?:laugh:

 

[jbrink01]

Hi Bunny,
Took your class THEN judged. Kinda feel that if your not schooled in it, stay out of it.

 

[Crash]

Rich and I would like to know how many of the teams that are discussing this issue have actually taken a CBJ class ( we know some of you have)..and how many have judged without certification? Just wondering? After you have had certification....how many contests have you judged? Totally a different ball park. If you've taken the class and have never judged..you haven't actually judged.

Since you asked Bunny.... my wife and I have taken 2 KCBS judging classes. We've never judged and prefer to cook as competitors. I agree that if you've taken the class and have never judged..you haven't actually judged.

That being said, judges can be wrong... and sometimes very wrong. Then again, they do the best that they can do. They're just human.

 

[mfreeman73]

I think it would be great if most competitors earned their CBJ and judged at least once. Sometimes they think their BBQ is the best out there. Maybe if they were able to eat some of the other competitor's BBQ, they might rethink how great theirs is.

As someone who's cooked and judged and who's gotten all kinds of wild scores, I understand the frustration. I've gotten a 9 and a 5 all in the same category. Talk about frustrating! So, I've thought long and hard about any solutions. Still thinking on that one.

I think keeping track of judge's scores and finding out who's really out way off from others may help. Also, if someone doesn't judge regularly maybe they should have to retake the class sometimes. Maybe you have to judge at least once a year to avoid the class. Not sure, just throwing stuff out there.

I think part of the judging is based on the personalities of the people. Some people are just critical by nature and some are more lenient. I do think one of the best things to help a judge is to keep judging. The more comps a person judges the better they should become over time. Over time it should be easier to spot the better Q in a tournament.

The system isn't necessarily a bad system. They even throw out the lowest score to help eliminate the oddball judge. I've seen some competitors who consistently place near the top and some who don't. Over time, if you're not near the top then it says more about your food than the judges eating it. Sure, there can be some improvements, and I hope that they will come, but it's not a broken system. They only true way to be completely fair is to have one table judge every competitor's food. And we know that isn't going to happen (nor should it).

 

[harley]

I think everyone's missing the point....

Whether a judge scores high or low, the key is consistancy. As long as each team is scored relative to the others, then the playingfield is level and the better meats still rise to the top. If a judge is inconsistant then that's poison and it doesn't make a difference from what sanctioning group they come from. Regards from Canada!

 

[BRBBQ]

Take a look at the many "rate my ...." threads here.

The Brothers are all well meaning, but the scores are all over the place.
No different than at a contest, sadly.
If you read the critiques carefully, many of the reviews seem to be more in the line of "what I would do to make the box better".
Also, a lot of speculation about tenderness and taste based on appearance.

As to cooking experience, I do not need a judge giving me what I call "pity points' due to the effort or money I have invested.
I want the judges to just judge my meat as it is.

I have seen the most critical judges to be the Master and other experienced judges and those who cook a lot also.
The seem to have developed very specific criteria that they are looking for, and if you don't hit it, you pay on the score sheet.


TIM

You took the words right out of my mouth:thumb:

 

[rxcellentq]

I cooked at the maples this weekend got 999 from one judge and 555 from the guy next to him. Still scratching my head.

 

[mfreeman73]

I cooked at the maples this weekend got 999 from one judge and 555 from the guy next to him. Still scratching my head.

I judged at the Maples and we got together as judges and decided to just screw with random competitors by putting in wildly different scores.

Just kidding.

What were your your other scores in that category? I'd be interested to see what other people were scoring on that.

Something would have to be very good at to get all 9s from me, but it does happen sometimes. It would have to really suck to get all 5s from me. I haven't ever scored something all low like that yet. Maybe I'm lucky and get better food.

 

[Matt_A]

I have two equally good spares sitting in front of me at the table. Unknown to me is that one is cooked by a first timer using a computer controlled FEC 100 and the other is from a first timer that's a stick burner and slaved over fuel and temperature control for hours. One used a commercial rub and one created their own custom rub. One sat in his trailer watching satellite TV and the other napped in a hammock next to his pit so he could keep an eye on it.

How would knowing that information affect my judging? What a judge MUST look at is the finished product, not the roads it traveled to get to my judging mat.

Would cooking with a team give a judge a different perspective? Probably. Would that difference in perspective change the way they judged? Probably a bit. Chances are it will make the judge more aware of the tricks of boxing for turn-in and how the meats can be "staged" to show better in the appearance round. Will this help improve the judging? Doubtful. Every judge brings their own prejudices into the judging process.

 

[ique]

Would cooking with a team give a judge a different perspective? Probably.

Not to mention the team they end up cooking with could give very different impressions. A judge could go out and cook with Cool Smoke and the cooking thing would seem easy as pie. Go cook with a newer team that is also cooking for a catering gig tomorrow and it will seem like crap load of work.

I'd rather just see them judge more contests and get a better feel for what excellent turn ins look and taste like.

 

[jalon]

My two cents...

I've been doing cue for years. Smoked meats since I was a kid, but competition bbq, being different than backyard bbq, is new to me. Reading the forum here the last few months, I found more than a few posts actually recommending that I judge a few contests before I dive in being a competitor. This is to get an idea of what good, quality entries are like, and to see the right/wrong way to judge is.

I'm actually signed up for a class here on the 20th down in GA for CBJ. Along with recommending a class and judging before competing, someone also mentioned to speak with the Table Captain first, and ask him/her to keep an eye out for you. Not saying I can't make up my own mind, but a little mentoring in there after judging won't hurt either.

I think this is a great way to get my feet wet, since I don't have the means yet to compete. I also travel quite a bit supporting our men and women in the Navy, and its easier to show up and judge then it is to bring a rig and compete.

If anyone disagrees, I respect their opinion. However, if the option is there to take a class, learn to judge, and get a feel for what goes on in there before I compete, why should this be a bad thing? I feel you gotta start somewhere - and this sounds about as responsible way of doing it as I can think of.

Jalon

 

[Matt_A]

Jalon, Once the first box is opened at your table, the table captain will not be able to guide you in any way until all judges at the table have written all their scores down and turned them over to the captain. Then you will be able to talk to the table captain and other judges about your experience with that round.

 

[KC_Bobby]

Oh Boo Hoo Hoo, I didn't get all nines and there was a very bad judge....
Man I'm tired of the whinning.
First off, I think there has been a enormous case of score creep the last couple years. "I should have gotten more 9's". Do you know how to get a 9 from me?
Work for it, 9's are the tops the very best, none better!! I don't think there are that many very bests at any given contest. Yes, I give 9's but they are deserving of my best score.
Secondly, a 6 means your entry was average, not crappy, not inedable. If a cook gets a 6 right away the dukes go up and they start looking for the terrible judge that gave them a "average" score. If your BBQ is average that ain't a bad thing.
Get better.
A 7 from me means your on your way to greatness.
An 8 means I considered your entry might be a 9 but maybe next time.
You get a 9 from me you earned it and are one of the best cooks that day.
It's not rocket science. Cook your best each event and I'll judge to the best of my ability each event.
Deal?
Ed

Ed, I just always pray we don't land on your table. I don't have any factual knowledge, but I sense your score is about 1 score lower than many other judges - which can add up to 4 points (give or take).

Nothing wrong with it :icon_blush: but I pray.