Hello cook people

[ModelMaker]

Here's something I posted over on another judgey forum thingie, it showed a picture of a proud brisket cook with a slice draped over his finger showing how tender his meat was.... I wrote:

Just so you cooks know, draping your brisket slice over my finger to help ascertain its tenderness score is forbidden now by the KCBS BOD as it holds no constant and reliable means to help arrive at tenderness.
Only the "pull test" and "mouth feel" are reliable means to reach my tenderness score!
Also poking my finger on a piece of pork to see if it's mushy is not a constant and reliable means to reach a tenderness score.

Now personally I disagree with this notion, I should be able to use whatever senses I have available to decide for myself what my score should be. I can see (sense) how a slice reacts to bending, I can feel with my finger tip (sense) how tender (stiff VS mushy) the meat is. I also smell (sense) each piece of meat before I taste it to judge how well it is smoked.
However being the consumet rule abiding judge that I am I will follow those rules set before me.

So what do you cooks feel about this? Are you satisfied with no draping or finger tip pushing? I see an awful lot of you showing off your brisket slices over your finger!!
Ed

 

[ewatts2003]

When I took the judging class in March they also drove home the points you just stated. Although I don't agree with all of it, I understand rules are rules. At the same time, when I cook I personally still drape the brisket slice over my finger as a quick gauge of tenderness, followed by a pull test. I think it's more a "photo" opp than anything to show how tender the brisket came out.

 

[JWACKS]

Your finger obviously doesn't chew the meat so it's not a direct indicator of tenderness or "mouth feel", but neither is bending a rack of ribs or poking a butt with a skewer. I try to use all of my senses when evaluating appearance, tenderness and taste as a judge and a cook. I don't think any method of evaluation (within reason) should be forbidden.

 

[Rusty Kettle]

I feel good about it. It shows that KCBS is trying to create standard methods to determine scores. A free for all judging method is stupid. Way to many different ways to judge were taught. Not judges fault but still needs corrected.
That being said I don't doubt you can use the tests and determine tenderness your way. Imo it just needs to be consistently used by all judges.
Also wanted to say thank you for accepting the rules and following them even though you don't agree.

 

[tduffy]

I'm glad KCBS did something about the droopy brisket test. It doesn't tell squat about how a piece of meat is cooked. You can get a tough slice to do that if you slice it thin enough.

 

[tduffy]

I can see (sense) how a slice reacts to bending, I can feel with my finger tip (sense) how tender (stiff VS mushy) the meat is. I also smell (sense) each piece of meat before I taste it to judge how well it is smoked.

You must be magical.

 

[thirdeye]

Draping a slice of brisket over your finger is not acceptable for judges to use as a consideration for scoring..., but a cook is not limited to any KCBS rules or recommendations.

And actually, the pull test is mentioned in the CBJ handbook in a couple of places. One describes this test as "a good way" to determine tenderness, and later on the handbook states that "One possible test is the pull test" which is explained but stops short of saying the pull test is mandatory. In CBJ refresher classes however it is recommended.

 

[Jorge]

As a cook, I'll drape it over my finger to get confirmation that it was ready to be pulled when I pulled it and it either did or didn't react to the rest the way I anticipated. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm on board with the BoD issuing some guidance. At the time it was done a cook/TV personality demonstrated their own test on TV. So you had the pull test taught in class, the over the finger draping test, and the fold test shown on TV. Next time you cook a brisket at home, run a couple of slices through all three and tell me what your results are.

You've been judging for a while, and I doubt I'd have an issue with your scores. You are a minority when it comes to the number of contests you've judged, as are all MCBJs. All we ask for as cooks is that the entry be judges as presented, according to the guidelines presented and taught in the class. That is the standard we are trying to meet.

You might be able to poke and prod, or jump rope with the right slice and give it the score it deserves after all of your experience. The judge with 2 contests under their belt, not so much.

I think judges as a group tend to get it right. Taste is subjective. The difference in entries can be negligible. I appreciate the effort given by those that take the time, and make the effort. I just don't see the problem with KCBS trying to eliminate another standard being unofficially adopted and becoming another unofficial standard.

My .05.

 

[Scottie]

My thoughts

 

[Jousting Pigs]

I'll trade you the bend test for letting me turn in 6 brisket slices with bites taken out of them...

As a judge you actually get the eat the specific slices turned in where as the cooks can't. We have to use everything we can to estimate the tenderness because eating the piece of meat is the only true way to tell if it is tender.

 

[Smokin D@wg@77]

good point !

 

[Jorge]

My thoughts

Hands look too small to belong to Big Johnson...

 

[Scottie]

Hands look too small to belong to Big Johnson...

Thst slice was so massive, it made my hands look small...

 

[gettinbasted]

The old Scottie Johnson foolproof tenderness test.

As a note to cooks. My last brisket win I had one that draped perfectly but ate dry and one that stood out flat like a diving board, but pulled and ate perfectly. Weirdest thing I’ve ever seen. Against all instincts I gave the judges the benefit of the doubt and turned in a box full of diving boards. They got it right and gave me a 180. The SJFPTT can be an indicator, but is far from the gospel.

 

[Jorge]

The old Scottie Johnson foolproof tenderness test.

As a note to cooks. My last brisket win I had one that draped perfectly but ate dry and one that stood out flat like a diving board, but pulled and ate perfectly. Weirdest thing I’ve ever seen. Against all instincts I gave the judges the benefit of the doubt and turned in a box full of diving boards. They got it right and gave me a 180. The SJFPTT can be an indicator, but is far from the gospel.

Wait, BBQ isn't rocket surgery?