Dish Washing & Hand Washing Station Questions

[thirdeye]

I need some ideas (and photo's would be better) of both dish washing and hand washing set-ups... and any interpretation of the rules if you have been challenged in the past with your set-up. I would like to stay on the minimum end of the requirements because our plan is to prep all meat at home, use plastic sheeting and disposable cutting boards, have enough utensils like tongs, basting brushes etc., so we won't have to wash them (all used items will go into an action packer) and of course we'll have nitrile gloves. Our sauces will be in separate mason jars (one for each meat), and we will have other disposable containers if we need to catch foil juices.

So I understand we'll need a 3-station wash set-up, and a hand wash with running water. I don't know where to start with the 3-station, and for the hand wash I do have a 2.5 gallon Cambro beverage container like below and the valve will lock open. It should keep hot water hot for hours. and we're thinking of a propane burner for heating water and setting the mason jars in warmed water to heat them, maybe even in a crock pot.... I'm assuming electricity to heat the sauce to dunk thighs is not considered cooking the meat?

 

[tduffy]

I do not bring any wash station to a contest as I'm completely disposable and never use anything more than once after it's dirty. It either goes in the trash or a big tote that gets washed in the dishwasher at home. Back when I did, we used bus tubs from sams club.

The rules state:
Sanitizing of work area should be implemented with the use of a bleach/water rinse (one cap/gallon of water). Each contestant will provide a separate container for washing, rinsing and sanitizing of utensils.

The way I interpret the rule is it sets the precedent that the contestant provides it and not the contest and if you have no need to wash, rinse or sanitize anything, then there is no need for you to provide your own washing, rinsing and sanitizing station.

 

[Blanton]

I do not bring any wash station to a contest as I'm completely disposable and never use anything more than once after it's dirty. It either goes in the trash or a big tote that gets washed in the dishwasher at home. Back when I did, we used bus tubs from sams club.

The rules state:
Sanitizing of work area should be implemented with the use of a bleach/water rinse (one cap/gallon of water). Each contestant will provide a separate container for washing, rinsing and sanitizing of utensils.

The way I interpret the rule is it sets the precedent that the contestant provides it and not the contest and if you have no need to wash, rinse or sanitize anything, then there is no need for you to provide your own washing, rinsing and sanitizing station.

How do you interpret that if you don't need to use it because you are disposable, then you don't need to have it??

To the OP, I am disposable also and have never been asked to show it, but I always carried three wash tubs also just incase. I also got tired of a bottle of bleach that i never used from leaking, so I bought the sanitabs from the restaurant store to satisfy that rule should I get asked.

 

[kwas68]

Been doing this for a while. I do the same thing as tduffy. Dirty dishes go in a bus tub to be brought home for washing. I use butcher paper and a plastic table cover that is removed and replaced after all of the meats are on the pits. Never had a problem.

 

[West River BBQ]

I haven't read anything about running water for washing your hands. Did I miss it somewhere?

 

[masque13]

I have a hand built cart on rollers that has a utility sink mounted to it and a portable propane water heater to heat the water.

never been asked to provide anything either.

BUT, just in case, I have always carried around a couple of tubs and the restaurant cleaning tabs that have bleach in them to satisfy if there were ever a problem.

 

[midwest_kc]

We are all disposable as well. Nor do we bring anything should we be asked. I suppose we'd have to go buy something to make it work. Even our camper, technically wouldn't work as we only have a double sink, not all 3.

 

[thirdeye]

After looking again at the KCBS 2019 rules, there is no mention of hot water for the dish washing station and a "container" is open to interpretation. Maybe I had read some "competition specific" rules about requiring a hand washing station because that is not in the KCBS rules either. Nonetheless, a hand washing station might be handy. Here is a clever DIY foot pump DESIGN I found online.

I do not bring any wash station to a contest as I'm completely disposable and never use anything more than once after it's dirty. It either goes in the trash or a big tote that gets washed in the dishwasher at home. Back when I did, we used bus tubs from sams club.

The rules state:
Sanitizing of work area should be implemented with the use of a bleach/water rinse (one cap/gallon of water). Each contestant will provide a separate container for washing, rinsing and sanitizing of utensils.

The way I interpret the rule is it sets the precedent that the contestant provides it and not the contest and if you have no need to wash, rinse or sanitize anything, then there is no need for you to provide your own washing, rinsing and sanitizing station.

I see your point and interpretation... but doesn't "sanitizing of the work area" also include table tops? I use Clorox Clean-Up with Bleach (premixed) which is a great product. But even mixing with the ratio of 1 cap full of Clorox per gallon of water in my own spray bottle is easy enough too.

To the OP, I am disposable also and have never been asked to show it, but I always carried three wash tubs also just incase. I also got tired of a bottle of bleach that i never used from leaking, so I bought the sanitabs from the restaurant store to satisfy that rule should I get asked.

Wow I assumed there would be a site inspection. Anyways, better to have some tubs and never be asked to show them than to have to race to the store and have to buy something. I already have several bus tubs for use in my sausage making, but heck, even a plastic paint roller tray would be a "container" and they are long enough to wash a knife. Oil change pans are also plastic and pretty cheap.

 

[thirdeye]

I haven't read anything about running water for washing your hands. Did I miss it somewhere?

I mentioned that below, I think I was confused with "site specific" rules. I'm thinking it was required for one of the school events I've cooked at.

 

[ClaytonSmoke]

Like most others have said, we are mostly disposable and carry bus tubs and sanitizing tablets in case we get asked, which we haven't so far.

 

[Jorge]

I do not bring any wash station to a contest as I'm completely disposable and never use anything more than once after it's dirty. It either goes in the trash or a big tote that gets washed in the dishwasher at home. Back when I did, we used bus tubs from sams club.

The rules state:
Sanitizing of work area should be implemented with the use of a bleach/water rinse (one cap/gallon of water). Each contestant will provide a separate container for washing, rinsing and sanitizing of utensils.

The way I interpret the rule is it sets the precedent that the contestant provides it and not the contest and if you have no need to wash, rinse or sanitize anything, then there is no need for you to provide your own washing, rinsing and sanitizing station.

In some regions the contest Reps will ask to see your tubs or sinks. If they aren't present a trip to Home Depot or the like may be required.... or a contest Rep may interpret the rules to mean that the equipment isn't necessary if everything is disposable or will not be reused. At the end of the day Rule 1 will prevail and you are at the mercy of the contest Reps at each individual contest.

After looking again at the KCBS 2019 rules, there is no mention of hot water for the dish washing station and a "container" is open to interpretation. Maybe I had read some "competition specific" rules about requiring a hand washing station because that is not in the KCBS rules either. Nonetheless, a hand washing station might be handy. Here is a clever DIY foot pump DESIGN I found online.



I see your point and interpretation... but doesn't "sanitizing of the work area" also include table tops? I use Clorox Clean-Up with Bleach (premixed) which is a great product. But even mixing with the ratio of 1 cap full of Clorox per gallon of water in my own spray bottle is easy enough too.




Wow I assumed there would be a site inspection. Anyways, better to have some tubs and never be asked to show them than to have to race to the store and have to buy something. I already have several bus tubs for use in my sausage making, but heck, even a plastic paint roller tray would be a "container" and they are long enough to wash a knife. Oil change pans are also plastic and pretty cheap.

I'd show up with three bus tubs, a bottle of bleach, some dishwashing liquid, an insulated cooler or drink container for a hand wash station, and a way to heat water. Use them as needed to satisfy the contest Reps and/or health inspector. I HAVE been at contests where the Health Dept. gets involved and REQUIRES a separate hand washing station. The Cambro or Carlisle dispenser you included the pic of should suffice, with a bucket underneath to catch the water.

As for dunking your chicken...you are fine heating the sauce on an electric or gas burner. I'd turn it off/unplug it, or remove the pan from the heat prior to dunking to comply with the rules. If you are working in the open it wouldn't be a bad idea to let your neighbors know that you understand the rule, and how you plan to comply with it just to make sure everyone is on the same page and there are no misunderstandings:wink:

 

[ynotfehc]

Ive been to a couple comps in the past where a health inspector walks through, usually when they are doing a peoples choice award and the public is eating food. Its rare.. The container you have pictured would work fine for washing hands. If you have a push button spigot or something that isnt free flowing, you cant really wash your hands properly. If you're hands are dirty, you wash 1 then hold the water open with the clean hand on the dirty spigot to wash the other? You just contaminated your "clean" hand. Gloves break and they arent sterile either. If you use dirty hands to put gloves on, your gloves are now dirty, and food is contaminiated.

I use deli containers to transport liquids, glass can break during the drive or bad weather. Had a comp once with 50mph straight line winds, my cook site was a mess, coolers tipped over and equipment all over the place. Had 1 di container crack, but was able to salvage enough. If it was glass, would've thrown it out.

 

[thirdeye]

In some regions the contest Reps will ask to see your tubs or sinks. If they aren't present a trip to Home Depot or the like may be required.... or a contest Rep may interpret the rules to mean that the equipment isn't necessary if everything is disposable or will not be reused. At the end of the day Rule 1 will prevail and you are at the mercy of the contest Reps at each individual contest.

I'd show up with three bus tubs, a bottle of bleach, some dishwashing liquid, an insulated cooler or drink container for a hand wash station, and a way to heat water. Use them as needed to satisfy the contest Reps and/or health inspector. I HAVE been at contests where the Health Dept. gets involved and REQUIRES a separate hand washing station. The Cambro or Carlisle dispenser you included the pic of should suffice, with a bucket underneath to catch the water.

As for dunking your chicken...you are fine heating the sauce on an electric or gas burner. I'd turn it off/unplug it, or remove the pan from the heat prior to dunking to comply with the rules. If you are working in the open it wouldn't be a bad idea to let your neighbors know that you understand the rule, and how you plan to comply with it just to make sure everyone is on the same page and there are no misunderstandings:wink:

Our health department used to be very picky, for example we were serving food to a high school football team. Ribs, pulled pork, beans, and had gallon containers of potato and pasta salad from a deli. They were fine with cooking on site, and serving food from the deli, but the beans were made ahead at home bu one of the volunteers and they would not let us serve them. We sent a guy to Sam's and bought 4 gallon cans of beans and heated them up on one of the cookers. Now we have a new bill that reduces rules at many events (unless the food is vended) and the bill has specific wording like weddings, funerals, pot-lucks, barbecues etc. I think the fire department would be more likely to show up at a BBQ comp than the health department.

Part of our "disposable" strategy is to have each meat's sauce is a separate Mason jar to be warmed in a hot water bath. Once we are done with that category the jar goes away and so does the basting brush.

 

[masque13]

Our health department used to be very picky, for example we were serving food to a high school football team. Ribs, pulled pork, beans, and had gallon containers of potato and pasta salad from a deli. They were fine with cooking on site, and serving food from the deli, but the beans were made ahead at home bu one of the volunteers and they would not let us serve them. We sent a guy to Sam's and bought 4 gallon cans of beans and heated them up on one of the cookers. Now we have a new bill that reduces rules at many events (unless the food is vended) and the bill has specific wording like weddings, funerals, pot-lucks, barbecues etc. I think the fire department would be more likely to show up at a BBQ comp than the health department.

Part of our "disposable" strategy is to have each meat's sauce is a separate Mason jar to be warmed in a hot water bath. Once we are done with that category the jar goes away and so does the basting brush.

if the fire department showed up i would just feed them some good BBQ.....problem solved......lol:becky:

 

[thirdeye]

Ive been to a couple comps in the past where a health inspector walks through, usually when they are doing a peoples choice award and the public is eating food. Its rare.. The container you have pictured would work fine for washing hands. If you have a push button spigot or something that isnt free flowing, you cant really wash your hands properly. If you're hands are dirty, you wash 1 then hold the water open with the clean hand on the dirty spigot to wash the other? You just contaminated your "clean" hand. Gloves break and they arent sterile either. If you use dirty hands to put gloves on, your gloves are now dirty, and food is contaminiated.

I use deli containers to transport liquids, glass can break during the drive or bad weather. Had a comp once with 50mph straight line winds, my cook site was a mess, coolers tipped over and equipment all over the place. Had 1 di container crack, but was able to salvage enough. If it was glass, would've thrown it out.

I didn't think about a glass jar breaking... And I hear you on the cross contamination issue, it's like washing your hands in a public restroom, then touch the doorknob getting out.

 

[egorham]

I go disposable as much as well, anything that is not disposable goes into a plastic trash bag and into the raw meat cooler after turn-ins (I have one cooler that is only for raw meat). The way I have always interpreted "will provide a separate container for washing, rinsing and sanitizing of utensils", is that you don't have to use them, unless the reps make you, but you always have to provide them. As we all know the first rule is the rep is always right so you need it there just in case they require it.

What I have been doing is using 3 bus tubs for carrying all of the supplies and small utensils. You can get lids for them and they are a good size. I make sure I have a bottle of dish washing soap and the Clorox bleach crystals (I don't want to have to worry about liquid bleach leaking) just in case I am required to use it. I have never been told I need to use them.

For hand washing I use a 2 1/2 gallon disposable water jug with the built in spigot (I saw Harry Soo using one a few years back and thought it was a good idea). The water is not hot but a good disinfectant soap is good enough considering I use nitrile gloves whenever I am handling food.


Ignore all of the above if you are serving the public. While I feel very confident in the sanitation of my cook site and serve the food to family and friends I know this would not work for the health department.

 

[tduffy]

After looking again at the KCBS 2019 rules, there is no mention of hot water for the dish washing station and a "container" is open to interpretation. Maybe I had read some "competition specific" rules about requiring a hand washing station because that is not in the KCBS rules either. Nonetheless, a hand washing station might be handy. Here is a clever DIY foot pump DESIGN I found online.



I see your point and interpretation... but doesn't "sanitizing of the work area" also include table tops? I use Clorox Clean-Up with Bleach (premixed) which is a great product. But even mixing with the ratio of 1 cap full of Clorox per gallon of water in my own spray bottle is easy enough too.




Wow I assumed there would be a site inspection. Anyways, better to have some tubs and never be asked to show them than to have to race to the store and have to buy something. I already have several bus tubs for use in my sausage making, but heck, even a plastic paint roller tray would be a "container" and they are long enough to wash a knife. Oil change pans are also plastic and pretty cheap.

I do everything in pans or disposable cutting boards. Anything that get on the table is hit with clorox spray.

 

[tduffy]

How do you interpret that if you don't need to use it because you are disposable, then you don't need to have it??

To the OP, I am disposable also and have never been asked to show it, but I always carried three wash tubs also just incase. I also got tired of a bottle of bleach that i never used from leaking, so I bought the sanitabs from the restaurant store to satisfy that rule should I get asked.

Because it doesn't specifically state that I have to.

 

[Jorge]

Because it doesn't specifically state that I have to.

d. Sanitizing of work area should be implemented with the
use of a bleach/water rinse (one cap/gallon of water).
Each contestant will provide a separate container for
washing, rinsing and sanitizing of utensils.

The rule says that the contestant will provide those things, and for what purpose. It does not require you to use them. A Rep can't require you to use them, but they can require you to have them if you want to cook. Rule 1.

1) The decision and interpretations of the KCBS Rules and
Regulations are at the discretion of the KCBS Contest
Representatives at the contest. Their decisions and
interpretations are final to the extent consistent with the rules.

The Reps you've had experience with may not enforce the rule, or interpret it that way. I've seen other Reps that believe a way to wash dishes has to be present, and will enforce the rule. Rule 1 means the Rep always wins, whether they are right or not.

 

[tduffy]

The rule says that the contestant will provide those things, and for what purpose. It does not require you to use them. A Rep can't require you to use them, but they can require you to have them if you want to cook. Rule 1.



The Reps you've had experience with may not enforce the rule, or interpret it that way. I've seen other Reps that believe a way to wash dishes has to be present, and will enforce the rule. Rule 1 means the Rep always wins, whether they are right or not.

I guess 3 disposable half pans are it then. Have yet to ever have a rep ask if I have such.