Comps dropping off

[Jorge]

Yes they were used by some, now they’re used by (almost) all...
and yes both are laden with man-made chemicals

While I understand your point, my experience doesn't match what you suggest. The use of phosphates had become pretty universal prior major TV exposure. What was going on in California, I have no idea. From NEBS-land down to Texas phosphates were a player.

Pitmasters brought more people to comp BBQ, but the internet, and classes, have had a much greater impact on what's turned in.

I've judged about 25 contests but it's taken me 10 years. This year I'm joining a team to see what it's like on the other side of the fence. Because of how competitions have evolved during my involvement, I don't see much reversal in the current trends, or if there were changes they would take a long time. That said, one thing I've discussed a few times with cooks and two organizers I know was how competition BBQ would be different if the contest supplied all of the meats. Would the playing field be more equal, or would the top teams still rise to the top because they have refined their cooking skills?

For lower cost and most likely an increase in the "fun factor", backyard, non-sanctioned or single meat events (like a rib or steak cook-off) can be a lot of fun, but there can be issues with judging and of course prize money is reduced.... some just give out trophies. Also on the "fun" side of cooking contests are the chuckwagon or cowboy cooking events, chili contests etc.... so there are a few options that take less money and less equipment. I think the reason some competitions have a Kids-Q contest, or a "mystery meat" or "dessert" category is to get some family involvement or something different to increase the fun factor.

Sterling Ball has his Guinea Pig concept. Initially I thought top teams would be reluctant to give up a potential advantage in meat selection, but many continue to cook those contests. After some thought, I decided that meat randomly provided to all teams actually favors the better cook. In the event that they receive a lesser cut they are usually much better prepared to deal with it than a new/average team. Rather than leveling the playing field, I think it actually tilts it slightly to favor the better cooks.

 

[gettinbasted]

That said, one thing I've discussed a few times with cooks and two organizers I know was how competition BBQ would be different if the contest supplied all of the meats. Would the playing field be more equal, or would the top teams still rise to the top because they have refined their cooking skills?

I cook ribs and pork from Walmart and chicken from Hy-Vee. Briskets are expensive, but I just order them off the internet like anyone else. I have cooked (and won) events where the meat is supplied by the organizer. The meat quality varies greatly between what each team receives, so in my experience it adds an even greater element of luck to the equation. The utopia “everyone cooks the same meat” is extremely difficult and expensive to obtain. Not to mention what I look for in a piece of meat varies from the next guy based on cooking style, etc..

I think there is a place for these events, and enjoy them greatly, but at some point, knowing which piece of meat to buy and take to a contest is a skill that should be rewarded in competition. In my experience, losers are going to find something to blame for losing (meat, judges, whatever) instead of putting in the work required to win.

That being said, there absolutely needs to be a focus on entry level events to get new people involved. One day one meat events or supplying the meats are both solid plans that should be explored.

 

[gettinbasted]

While I understand your point, my experience doesn't match what you suggest. The use of phosphates had become pretty universal prior major TV exposure. What was going on in California, I have no idea. From NEBS-land down to Texas phosphates were a player.

Pitmasters brought more people to comp BBQ, but the internet, and classes, have had a much greater impact on what's turned in.



Sterling Ball has his Guinea Pig concept. Initially I thought top teams would be reluctant to give up a potential advantage in meat selection, but many continue to cook those contests. After some thought, I decided that meat randomly provided to all teams actually favors the better cook. In the event that they receive a lesser cut they are usually much better prepared to deal with it than a new/average team. Rather than leveling the playing field, I think it actually tilts it slightly to favor the better cooks.

Much better put than my response, as usual!

 

[midwest_kc]

While I understand your point, my experience doesn't match what you suggest. The use of phosphates had become pretty universal prior major TV exposure. What was going on in California, I have no idea. From NEBS-land down to Texas phosphates were a player.

Pitmasters brought more people to comp BBQ, but the internet, and classes, have had a much greater impact on what's turned in.



Sterling Ball has his Guinea Pig concept. Initially I thought top teams would be reluctant to give up a potential advantage in meat selection, but many continue to cook those contests. After some thought, I decided that meat randomly provided to all teams actually favors the better cook. In the event that they receive a lesser cut they are usually much better prepared to deal with it than a new/average team. Rather than leveling the playing field, I think it actually tilts it slightly to favor the better cooks.

I really thought that the Guinea Pig style would catch on and be the future of comp BBQ. It still may be, but clearly the effort Sterling put in, wasn't worth it for the reward, as the original one is all that's left. The one here in KC was cool, and I hoped it would be a yearly thing.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

Competitions come and go. For cooks, it's a buyer's market on the East Coast. Competitors vote with their feet and the better run better value contests survive.

A number of contests on the East Coast have run their life cycle: Start as a BBQ contest; become a festival; wonder why the festival has a BBQ contest tucked back in the back: Keeps the festival, kills the BBQ contest.

The other thing (at least here in the East) that has hurt is we had 47 weekends of rain last year. Contests depend on public support and attendance and in most cases the general public doesn't go to outdoor festivals in the rain.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

I really thought that the Guinea Pig style would catch on and be the future of comp BBQ. It still may be, but clearly the effort Sterling put in, wasn't worth it for the reward, as the original one is all that's left. The one here in KC was cool, and I hoped it would be a yearly thing.

The one we attended was an interesting event but doing the math the with meat entry fee was within $20 of our usual entry fee plus buying our own meat. Meat selection is a skill and there is enough random chance in BBQ without gambling for meat.

 

[Fat Freddy]

I will tell something that happened at a contest once that is no longer around. This DID NOT affect me, my reasons for stepping away is primarily health related but I know this affected 2 teams. There was a contest that said they only had room for 25 teams, typically struggled to get their teams. But one year they filled up early. And turned away 2 teams because they were full. One was brand spanking new had never competed before, the other had stepped away for some time and was trying to start back up. However this contest then allowed 2 bigger known teams to come in. Some people said stuff and was told that because they had generators, trailers etc. that they could make it work. In my opinion probably true but left a bad taste in several peoples minds and turned away 2 new teams that never competed again.

Another contest that DID affect me but I got over it. My very first KCBS contest in a town 20 miles from me. Got my entry in early and it filled up. A well known BBQ personality that seems to judge a lot of shows on TV now. Decided he wanted to do the contest and even though it was full and at a campground so everyone had their own camp spots, the organizers wanted him for his name there so they went to a team close to where everyone came in that was only under canopies(myself) and had us move so this big blue trailer with his name and stuff was on it, was seen from the streets. We were moved next to chitters. This bothered several people and contest died after one more year.

So to me agreeing with TDuffy is that it all depends on organizer, there are other contests that thrive and always has plenty of teams and have for many years and those particular organizers bust their butt to get teams and make teams feel special. Then there are others that struggle and seem to only cater to certain teams and it shows and usually those contests are gone as quick as they start, sadly though not before potentially the turn away new blood and that keeps new blood from coming into hobby.

 

[eggzlot]

I think most of these contents wither away is because they are just not money makers. If you are trying to raise funds for a cause that is great, but when you see the costs involved with getting a KCBS event vs the payoff, it is just not there. The first 1-2 years the public is interested - oh a BBQ content. Then they show up, told they cannot sample the foods, they need to buy food from the guys over there and 80% of the KCBS teams are hidden in their trailers/RVs for most of the content. There is no draw to the public, so as others have said, organizers do classic car shows or other items to draw in people.

If the BBQ contest circuit wants to thrive it needs to find a way to lower the cost barrier for entry and also find a way to appeal to the public. I know there have been some one off events that require cooking under EZ Up tents, or having other ways to get interaction with the public.

I had a few friends that went to 1-2 of my contests, they were bored beyond belief and stopped coming.

The only one in my area (NY/NJ/PA/CT) that did much was the Ridgefield contest because they have a few kids rides/games and its part of their town day. Staten Island does a people's choice so that brings out a crowd (but that is another thorn in my side). But lots of other contests have come and gone because its not exciting watching grown adults pop out of an RV every 30 mins to turn in food to judges who are sitting behind closed doors.

 

[Right on Q]

Agree with many responses here. It goes both ways. Organizers that treat cookers well seem to thrive. There is also a money aspect as many contests are poorly managed financially. It's rare to find one that both treats cooks well and is managed well financially.

Did a contest this weekend where the organizer brought an entire box of donuts to each team, had a hospitality table on Friday night, and Saturday during awards, and noted the rain coming in and provided gravel for everyone to set up on if they chose. Very awesome touches.

Then during awards they had an ancillary sauce contest where 1st place got $450 and the organizers only took $50 of the pool :doh: (25 total entries)

Totally agree about folks hiding in their RVs. We are a tent team and hope to get an RV or trailer at some point, but I'm determined that we will continue to talk to our neighbors and the general public as much as is reasonable bc we love bbq and we love to chat about it to basically anyone :crazy:

 

[tduffy]

I've judged about 25 contests but it's taken me 10 years. This year I'm joining a team to see what it's like on the other side of the fence. Because of how competitions have evolved during my involvement, I don't see much reversal in the current trends, or if there were changes they would take a long time. That said, one thing I've discussed a few times with cooks and two organizers I know was how competition BBQ would be different if the contest supplied all of the meats. Would the playing field be more equal, or would the top teams still rise to the top because they have refined their cooking skills?

For lower cost and most likely an increase in the "fun factor", backyard, non-sanctioned or single meat events (like a rib or steak cook-off) can be a lot of fun, but there can be issues with judging and of course prize money is reduced.... some just give out trophies. Also on the "fun" side of cooking contests are the chuckwagon or cowboy cooking events, chili contests etc.... so there are a few options that take less money and less equipment. I think the reason some competitions have a Kids-Q contest, or a "mystery meat" or "dessert" category is to get some family involvement or something different to increase the fun factor.

Providing meats doesn't level the playing field, it shuffles it. If you want to kill competition BBQ, make us cook provided meats and not allow us to trim at home. If that ever happens Just give me a heads up so I can sell my trailer and equipment before the market gets too flooded. I hear this preached on social media quite often. Usually by people who just aren't good comp cooks thinking they are getting beat by people out spending them.
Yet we have more than one meat provided contest in the northern plains and every one of them struggles to get to 25 teams. Where is everyone at that is preaching these contests are the answer to all problems?

 

[masque13]

Yeh we are a tent team too. And we love to try to be friendly and neighbor-ly to folks that seem to feel the same way. I wish we could actually do more interacting but if you actually try to make good food it always seems like there is something I should or could be doing. But we try to be welcoming and inviting to everyone! I’m fact, I’ve gotten to know a few of you guys from friendly interactions at contests.

 

[masque13]

I will tell something that happened at a contest once that is no longer around. This DID NOT affect me, my reasons for stepping away is primarily health related but I know this affected 2 teams. There was a contest that said they only had room for 25 teams, typically struggled to get their teams. But one year they filled up early. And turned away 2 teams because they were full. One was brand spanking new had never competed before, the other had stepped away for some time and was trying to start back up. However this contest then allowed 2 bigger known teams to come in. Some people said stuff and was told that because they had generators, trailers etc. that they could make it work. In my opinion probably true but left a bad taste in several peoples minds and turned away 2 new teams that never competed again.

Another contest that DID affect me but I got over it. My very first KCBS contest in a town 20 miles from me. Got my entry in early and it filled up. A well known BBQ personality that seems to judge a lot of shows on TV now. Decided he wanted to do the contest and even though it was full and at a campground so everyone had their own camp spots, the organizers wanted him for his name there so they went to a team close to where everyone came in that was only under canopies(myself) and had us move so this big blue trailer with his name and stuff was on it, was seen from the streets. We were moved next to chitters. This bothered several people and contest died after one more year.

So to me agreeing with TDuffy is that it all depends on organizer, there are other contests that thrive and always has plenty of teams and have for many years and those particular organizers bust their butt to get teams and make teams feel special. Then there are others that struggle and seem to only cater to certain teams and it shows and usually those contests are gone as quick as they start, sadly though not before potentially the turn away new blood and that keeps new blood from coming into hobby.

I understand the frustration but some kind of compromise should have been worked out. Because I see both sides. As an event organizer, you want the name recognition and star power of a celebrity being involved. And I would for sure what that person to be very visible. And since you mentioned a big blue trailer then I would for sure want that guy and his personality front and center.

But as an organizer, I would ask being willing to compensate anyone asked to move to make room for the change. I would have probably offered a half refund or full refund of your contest entry while still allowing the team to participate. That way everyone wins or at least everyone feels slightly better.

 

[masque13]

Competitions come and go. For cooks, it's a buyer's market on the East Coast. Competitors vote with their feet and the better run better value contests survive.

A number of contests on the East Coast have run their life cycle: Start as a BBQ contest; become a festival; wonder why the festival has a BBQ contest tucked back in the back: Keeps the festival, kills the BBQ contest.

The other thing (at least here in the East) that has hurt is we had 47 weekends of rain last year. Contests depend on public support and attendance and in most cases the general public doesn't go to outdoor festivals in the rain.

That’s very interesting. Very few of the sanctioned contests I’ve attended relied on the public. They were pretty much stand alone bbq contests. So the only thing they relied on was entry from the teams and sponsorships.

And in the few cases where I’ve been that was part of a bbq “festival” it was super weird and frustrating to the patrons because they couldn’t be served meat by teams only the handful of vendors.

 

[bpeyton89]

I cook ribs and pork from Walmart and chicken from Hy-Vee. Briskets are expensive, but I just order them off the internet like anyone else. I have cooked (and won) events where the meat is supplied by the organizer. The meat quality varies greatly between what each team receives, so in my experience it adds an even greater element of luck to the equation. The utopia “everyone cooks the same meat” is extremely difficult and expensive to obtain. Not to mention what I look for in a piece of meat varies from the next guy based on cooking style, etc..

If only the wallmarts in STL would bring ET's back...

 

[West River BBQ]

While Initially I thought top teams would be reluctant to give up a potential advantage in meat selection, but many continue to cook those contests. After some thought, I decided that meat randomly provided to all teams actually favors the better cook. In the event that they receive a lesser cut they are usually much better prepared to deal with it than a new/average team. Rather than leveling the playing field, I think it actually tilts it slightly to favor the better cooks.

I started thinking of a stock-car analogy. Theoretically, all the teams are driving equally matched cars. Again, theoretically. Thus, the test is what type of driver you have. With a meat contest, I'd like it if we were comparing the quality of the chefs.

 

[gettinbasted]

I started thinking of a stock-car analogy. Theoretically, all the teams are driving equally matched cars. Again, theoretically. Thus, the test is what type of driver you have. With a meat contest, I'd like it if we were comparing the quality of the chefs.

I understand the sentiment, but unfortunately pigs aren’t stock-cars.

Go buy a case of pork. Look at each butt. Are they the same quality? Probably only 2 out of the 10 have marbling and a money muscle. Maybe another 2 will have one or the other. So 2 out of 10 are good competition butts. The other 8 are to varying degrees lesser (competition) quality. If I get one of those 2 good butts, I promise that you did not make things equal.

Now do the same for the other 3 meats plus add in an organizer that doesn’t know what competition quality meat is sorting through it and what do you have? A lottery.

At King of the Smokerr and the GP events they have meat sponsors, great resources and very knowledgeable people sorting through the meat and even they can’t get things equal. It’s an impossible task.

This is not bashing the concept. Providing meat is great for cost control and fun, just understand, you are not making everyone equal from a meat perspective (unless you count an equal opportunity to win the meat lottery as starting equal). I cooked KOS 4 times. I knew I had a good chance to win this year from the jump after the meat draw. I got lucky and got good stuff. I still had to execute, but I was given a good opportunity based on the draw I got. The other three years I knew I was starting from behind. It’s the way it is at these events.

Meat does not have to be expensive, but it is not easy. I’ve hit 6 stores between following this thread looking for ribs and butts that I like to cook for this weekend. If someone has better meat than you, odds are they didn’t outspend you they just outworked you.

 

[pharp]

Two contests cancelled in Arkansas this year and one cancelled last year for a state that only had a hand full of them to begin with.

Didn't really affect us because we had already decided to stop competing, because after 3 stubborn years we finally realized we were not very good.

 

[Fat Freddy]

I understand the frustration but some kind of compromise should have been worked out. Because I see both sides. As an event organizer, you want the name recognition and star power of a celebrity being involved. And I would for sure what that person to be very visible. And since you mentioned a big blue trailer then I would for sure want that guy and his personality front and center.

But as an organizer, I would ask being willing to compensate anyone asked to move to make room for the change. I would have probably offered a half refund or full refund of your contest entry while still allowing the team to participate. That way everyone wins or at least everyone feels slightly better.

Dont get me wrong this is not a complaint about big teams, it is more how things are handled by organizers. The solutions you offered would both be worthy solutions unfortunately how many organizers would do that and that is the issue. While the complaint is not about big name teams, because it is not, shouldnt they, he in this case, have to follow same rules as others no matter what. I have seen plenty of big name teams follow rules, sign up when supposed to and even give extra room if neighbor takes a bit much but if sign up is until certain team amount or date then everyone should have same rules

 

[Jorge]

I started thinking of a stock-car analogy. Theoretically, all the teams are driving equally matched cars. Again, theoretically. Thus, the test is what type of driver you have. With a meat contest, I'd like it if we were comparing the quality of the chefs.

In comp bbq I think a 'run what 'ya brung' model gets you closer to what you want than randomly drawn meat provided by a sponsor. @gettinbasted covered it well above.

If everybody brings what they want to cook, it ultimately comes down to how each cook performs. There's already enough whining in bbq without someone, legitimately, complaining about being given a couple of racks of shiners that cost them a GC and a bung in the draw.

 

[West River BBQ]

Some very good points about how the quality of meat affects a contest. I'm relatively new to smoking but I still find myself sorting through what's available in the aisle and not too infrequently speaking directly to the butchers. I allow myself to entertain fantasy once in a while; in this case, thinking that a sponsor's motives in selecting meat would be the same as mine. Now, does someone want to ruin Christmas for me by saying there's no Santa?