Briskets & Butts -Pride Before the Fall!

[Durangutan]

This is primarily a rhetorical rant as there is a plentitude of great direction here on successfully preparing BBQ. I am perplexed and pretty deflated by my recent experiences with briskets & pork shoulders though. I'll admit that a plain brisket doesn't do a lot for me as I prefer it in one of its pickled forms but, since so many others have an affinity for it, I thought it worth taking up the challenge. I bought Franklin's book, read it cover to cover and then went about following his guidance to the letter. I smoked a number of briskets with very good and predictable results, most of which was shared with friends and relatives who, after sampling it, wanted more. Confident that I had mastered this vexing cut of meat, albeit by standing on the shoulders of another, my wife and I invited some our brisket loving friends to dinner so that they should be duly impressed. Doing everything exactly as before and allowing myself a little extra time since this was no longer rehearsal, I was ready to awe. By about two or three that afternoon, it was apparent that dinner might be a little late. By the time dinner was a little late, I was glad we had as a distraction copious supplies of booze and, by the time dinner was very late, I was also glad that our guests were very forgiving since they politely gnawed on the shoe leather I had prepared for them while I dined on crow. They graciously complimented me on its preparation and even took a little home to feed to the dog.

Shaken by the experience, I have since cooked three more briskets to try to emulate my beginner's luck. Each time allowing more time and carefully adhering to the recipe. Each time the cook has taken longer with equally unsatisfactory results culminating in yesterday's attempt which kicked off with the meat going on at 04:00 (that's am) and me finally deciding to throw in the towel at midnight last night with the same stiff, firm hunk of meat that never breached 190deg after 20hrs at 275. My wife's already let slip that she'll bring to her church potluck (one of the beneficiaries of my early successes) a brisket next weekend. My quandary now is that I've got to find a competent cook to prepare it on my behalf or get a practice cook in using an alternate method before my skills are on display.:roll: For the economy of time, I'm liking the cook at 300, wrap in BP at 4hrs, probe tender & cool to 150 method. Maybe I'll get a couple cooks with some beginner's luck there.

What astonishes me by all of this is that a number of consecutive successful cooks could have been made, none taking much more than 12hrs from the time the fire was lit to first bite, and nearly as many following cooks have gotten progressively longer. Much longer. I realize that there are variations in pieces of meat and so forth but, wow! On the same line, I've had the same problem with pork shoulders. The last three have taken forever and never really got to a proper level of doneness before I had to quit. That, I think, will be remedied if I start wrapping again. I'd stopped 'cause it felt like cheating and I wasn't satisfied with the soft bark but I'll have to sacrifice that to dissolve my marriage to the smoker for the bulk of a 24hr stretch.

If you're still here:bored:, rant's over!:clap2:

 

[Inthewoods]

You have a entertaining way of ranting, well written.

Brisket is my nemesis, I just keep forcing it on the family though.

-D

 

[4ever3]

That was so well written I would enjoy you ranting more often :biggrin1:

Something doesn't add up though, 275° for 20 hours? Or was that tongue planted firmly in cheek while ranting?

 

[Durangutan]

You have a entertaining way of ranting, well written.

Brisket is my nemesis, I just keep forcing it on the family though.

-D

Thank you. And I like your attitude. I generally preface anything else I prepare for guests that I'll try to cook it to their liking but they'll get it the way they get it. Just disappointing to have felt like a hero to find out I'm still a zero!

 

[Durangutan]

That was so well written I would enjoy you ranting more often :biggrin1:

Something doesn't add up though, 275° for 20 hours? Or was that tongue planted firmly in cheek while ranting?

Thank you. Nope, no kidding. Wrapped in bp when the bark looked good and I was fairly sure any stall was over in the early afternoon. I think the internal temperature was around 175. Was ready for dinner and hard liquor by about 7:00 pm so I moved the brisket and a butt to the oven (cheating, I know!) and there they stayed at 275 'til midnight. The shoulder never got over 185. Sure, by then I was a little pie-eyed but I'm using Thermoworks thermometers & probes. They could be off but I doubt by much. I'm obviously missing something somewhere.

 

[KORND4WG X]

Excellent rant :clap2:

I've shared that sinking feeling as friends and fam are choking down shoe leather briskie and not only that I made them wait for it.

I remember one friend who said 'wow it's like 'buttaaa' which made me feel even worse and reminded me to never, ever trust anything he says :twitch:

 

[pjtexas1]

I find that my insulated cabinet and my offset cook very differently. The cabinet will cook a partially frozen brisket in 6 or so hours at 325. My offset will take 2-3 hours longer if I throw the brisket on anywhere near 32 degrees. That's a long way to go to ask what temp your brisket is when you throw it on the cooker...but today seems like a rant day.:laugh:

also are you taking notes on every cook? Those notes will tell you a lot. Like temp swings, things you did differently, how long the stall lasted. I still take notes. It's just too hard to recall everything exactly.

 

[Q Junkie]

I had a similar experience with a brisket. I had cut about 3 lbs of the flat off and tossed it in the freezer and smoked the remaining 12 lbs. It just did not want to get through the stall. It out lasted me so I gave up, cut it in two pieces, vac sealed and tossed it in the fridge. I made some really good chili and some excellent tacos with it.
I am glad I did not have guests waiting on dinner. My family on the other hand has become used to eating late every now and then.

 

[smoke ninja]

Many of us have lost our way at one time or another. Sometimes a reset is in order.



As to your situation, something is definitely off. 20 hrs at 275 is more than enough

 

[Northlander]

At least you've had a few turn out! I followed the Franklin method three times now;
1. Too salty
2. Overcooked
3. Overcooked

The third one was the most depressing. It was meat thermometer tender in three hours at about 178'. I kept waiting for a stall- never happened. I cooked it to 203-205' as directed by Franklin-it was done in a little over 4 hours!!! I had planned on a 8-12' cook. It was no longer tender once it passed 186'. I should have just went old school (from what I have read) and trusted the fork-testing for tenderness. NO MORE FRANKLIN METHOD FOR ME.

To quote Star Trek (Khan I believe);

Brisket... He tasks me, and I will have him!!!

 

[landarc]

Something doesn't add up here, as other said, the numbers don't make sense. In those situations, my plan is always to check all of my thermometers, especially pit temperature. Something is going consistently off, that almost always points to pit temperature being lower than expected or thought.

It is a fine first rant. :thumb:

 

[Bludawg]

Sounds like a pit thermometer issue. Where are you measuring your pit temp, on the installed door thermo or remotely at the grate? 275 on the door where the thermo is located 10 -12" above the grate is 50-75 cooler at grate level meaning that the grate could be between 200 & 225 or cooler depending on where the exhaust is located and assuming that your thermos are in calibration.

 

[Randy3269]

These two gentlemen ^^ know of what the speak.

 

[Durangutan]

Sounds like a pit thermometer issue. Where are you measuring your pit temp, on the installed door thermo or remotely at the grate? 275 on the door where the thermo is located 10 -12" above the grate is 50-75 cooler at grate level meaning that the grate could be between 200 & 225 or cooler depending on where the exhaust is located and assuming that your thermos are in calibration.

For the brisket, the probe is clipped to the grate about 1 1/2"-2" from the meat about midway along its length, the logic being it'd be an average end to end if there's any differential. I recently tested all of my probes in the oven using both a ThermaQ and a Bluetherm Duo as I was suspicious of a large difference in temperatures in my other cooker and both probes and instruments were within a degree of each other. Not conclusive so it's worth looking at again. I think it's your method, Bludawg, that I might try to get out of my rut.

 

[Durangutan]

P.S. Just found out that I'm off the hook for next weekend's potluck; it's been cancelled and, apparently, it had nothing to do with my brisket!:biggrin1:

Thanks to all who've salved the wound a bit through commiseration.

 

[4ever3]

That's what I said, something doesn't add up...

 

[Nuco59]

true fact: Thermometers will lie to you. You don't have to stop using them- they are useful.

But you really need to go "Ronny Reagan" on them:Trust but verify.

(ps- do a Bludawg style brisket. No need to overthink anything or read a book. If you can follow a short list of instructions, you can knock one out of the park)

 

[viking72]

Lose the oven, therms,and Franklin.
Cook BBQ and have fun.
Burn sticks and drink beer, relax.

Later,
Doug

 

[JS-TX]

P.S. Just found out that I'm off the hook for next weekend's potluck; it's been cancelled and, apparently, it had nothing to do with my brisket!:biggrin1:

Thanks to all who've salved the wound a bit through commiseration.

You're not off the hook for practicing though!:loco: j/k!
It does sound like a pit temp issue. I gave up on electronic thermometers years ago. Get a good quality pit thermometer. Check it with boiling water every now and then. Also wrapping BP doesn't help my brisket cook faster, but foil does! :icon_blush: