Anybody paying attention to the new rules being submited?

[LoneStar Smoke Rangers]

This is where I am different. I think as far as the competition stuff it needs to stay in your cook site which includes box building it takes me about 45 min to make all my boxes can you seriously not take a 45 min break from drinking? All meat prep needs to be done at contest also.

I think I hear the theme music from The Hunt for Red October playing in the background.......

This just in Comrades!!! There will no longer be any prize money at KCBS Competitions. These are the People's competitions and are for the good of the People. There now will also be five catagories in all KCBS competitions, Chicken, Pork Ribs, Pork Shoulder, Beef Brisket, and Beef Stroganoff.:wink::twisted::eusa_clap

 

[butt head]

Just my opinion but they need to inforce the rules they have before the can change them. In wildwood their are some teams that have all of their cooking eguipment outside the 20+20 so they can fit their party and this has been going on for years

 

[dmprantz]

Is rule #7 at the judges discretion? If the meat leaves the site after inspection is it a mandatory DQ?

I would say that it's at the rep's discretion only in as much as Rule 1 puts all rules at the rep's discretion. That said, rule 7 clearly states meat not meating the requirements of that rule will get a DQ with a score of 1. I think that should always happen. If the intent of this rule change is to ensure that your meat doesn't leave your cooksite until turn-ins, I would respectfully suggest that you leave rule 3 alone. In rule 7, I would change the second sentence to read as follows:

"Once competition meat has been inspected, it shall not leave the team's cooking space until it is in an approved KCBS numbered container and ready to be turned in, or with approval by a contest rep."

dmp

 

[Tarheel]

I would say that it's at the rep's discretion only in as much as Rule 1 puts all rules at the rep's discretion. That said, rule 7 clearly states meat not meating the requirements of that rule will get a DQ with a score of 1. I think that should always happen. If the intent of this rule change is to ensure that your meat doesn't leave your cooksite until turn-ins, I would respectfully suggest that you leave rule 3 alone. In rule 7, I would change the second sentence to read as follows:

"Once competition meat has been inspected, it shall not leave the team's cooking space until it is in an approved KCBS numbered container and ready to be turned in, or with approval by a contest rep."

dmp

My question again: where is the clear advantage gained by someone taking there meat and putting it in there neighbors cambro to keep it warm or cooler to keep it cold in an effort to cut cost. Other than the cost savings they will realize. It is already stated that you have to have your own cooker and meat and that the meat can not leave the contest. If someone wanted to cheat you can do it very easily and not get caught. Quit worrring about the trivial things and just have fun.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

I That said, rule 7 clearly states meat not meating the requirements of that rule will get a DQ with a score of 1.

Intentional or not this was funny!

 

[Slamdunkpro]

I have on nurmours occasions allowed others the use of my air conditioned trailer to do things like trim meat, build boxes, do dishes, or what ever else they might need.

Not trying to pick on Roy but doesn't this practice violate rule #7 as it currently exists?

 

[dmprantz]

My question again: where is the clear advantage...

Sorry, I neither agree nor disagree with the rule change as I stated it. My only intent was to suggest a change that may have had the desired result of the rules committee without as many side-effects. Personally, I can't think of an advantage that I could get from storing my meat in another team's cooler or Cambro. There could be an advantage to taking meat to another team's site for trimming, seasoning, injecting, resting, etc if the other team has air conditioning. Personally, I don't think I would ever ask to share cooler nor Cambro space with another team, nor would I allow others to share mine. It just opens the door to potential mix-ups and "feels" wrong, but it isn't against the rules. I have no dog in this fight.

dmp

 

[dmprantz]

Intentional or not this was funny!

Not, but thanks

Not trying to pick on Roy but doesn't this practice violate rule #7 as it currently exists?

As I'm reading rule 7 today, that is not illegal. Which part would think that this violates?

dmp

 

[Capn Kev]

My question again: where is the clear advantage gained by someone taking there meat and putting it in there neighbors cambro to keep it warm or cooler to keep it cold in an effort to cut cost. Other than the cost savings they will realize. It is already stated that you have to have your own cooker and meat and that the meat can not leave the contest. If someone wanted to cheat you can do it very easily and not get caught. Quit worrring about the trivial things and just have fun.

I'm not sure this is a trivial thing. Granted, 99% of us probably have the right intentions when doing so. However, why put yourself in a position where people could possibly conceive you were cheating? In addition, how expensive is a cooler and a towel? You can keep your meat double-foiled and wrapped in a towel inside of a cooler and get the same effect that a Cambro provides.

I don't ever like putting myself in a position where someone could accuse me of cheating, even though I know in my heart that it would never happen. So, in regards to meat co-mingling in the same trailer, fridge, cooler, cambro... I just don't agree with it.

Just my $.02

 

[Slamdunkpro]

As I'm reading rule 7 today, that is not illegal. Which part would think that this violates?

dmp

I guess it depends what the definition of "contest site" is. That term is only used once, in rule#7. All other references are to "cook space". Are they interchangeable or do they have different meanings? Based on the almighty rep rule I suppose it could go either way.




down down down the rabbit hole we go...........

 

[dmprantz]

I guess it depends what the definition of "contest site" is. That term is only used once, in rule#7. All other references are to "cook space". Are they interchangeable or do they have different meanings?

This is just my personal opinion, but I believe that those who make rules pick words that mean something when they use them, and if in this case they chose "contest site" instead of "cook site," then there was a reason for it. Perhaps they wanted teams to be able to prep and store at other sites, or perhaps they felt that restricting the meat to the cook site would make turn ins kinda difficult. Regardless, I believe that the use of contest site means the entire contest.

If the current BOD feel that meat should be restricted to just the cook site, I have no issue with that, but I think the rules should be changed or clarified to state that, hence my suggestion above. Again, it doesn't really matter to me.

dmp

 

[Nordy]

Rule 7 says to me... I can't bring my meat to inspection, then leave and trim/prep/season it at home or a hotel and then return it to the contest site to cook.

Makes sense to me...

 

[dhuffjr]

The rules committee is saddled with the thankless job of trying to come up with clarified rules because there are teams out there who think that they are somehow more special than the clearly evident intention of the rules. We saw two "separate" teams co-mingling meats in a cambro, who complained bitterly when the rep brought that to their attention because no rule explicitly forbade sharing a holding device.

Come onnnnn. Dishwashing and garnish is one thing, but people need to keep their meat to themselves at a contest.

..... and this boys and girls is why this is now an issue. If you've got the money for gas, meat, entry fee, etc then you can spare a few bucks for a cooler to hold your meat. As much as people complain about micromanagement when you have teams doing something that is against the intent of the rules and arguing that it is not forbidden based on precise wording then you'll get precise wording coming down the pipe.

I'm with the Diva on the turn in boxes if folks want to gather and do them together.

Dishwashing I'm on the fence on. There is a rule that each site must have the tubs for washing. Seems to me there is an intent there. May that ones intent is just to mollify the health department.

 

[Jorge]

As usual, my opinion is my own etc...

This is just my personal opinion, but I believe that those who make rules pick words that mean something when they use them, and if in this case they chose "contest site" instead of "cook site," then there was a reason for it. Perhaps they wanted teams to be able to prep and store at other sites, or perhaps they felt that restricting the meat to the cook site would make turn ins kinda difficult. Regardless, I believe that the use of contest site means the entire contest.

If the current BOD feel that meat should be restricted to just the cook site, I have no issue with that, but I think the rules should be changed or clarified to state that, hence my suggestion above. Again, it doesn't really matter to me.

dmp

One example for the way that rule is worded is a contest this season where the health department required all meat to be stored in a common refrigerated truck. Meat was kept in individual coolers and access was supervised to prevent any tampering. If "cook site" was used the options would be no contest, Competitor Series contest, or a variance granted by the board.

My question again: where is the clear advantage gained by someone taking there meat and putting it in there neighbors cambro to keep it warm or cooler to keep it cold in an effort to cut cost. Other than the cost savings they will realize. It is already stated that you have to have your own cooker and meat and that the meat can not leave the contest. If someone wanted to cheat you can do it very easily and not get caught. Quit worrring about the trivial things and just have fun.

Lets assume that teams A and B share a cambro. Lets assume that Team A nailed their chicken, ribs, and brisket but tanked pork. Team B has really good pork. Only those cooks know what product was cooked by each team. It creates the opportunity for two teams to work together to gain a competitive advantage.

 

[dmprantz]

One example for the way that rule is worded is a contest this season where the health department required all meat to be stored in a common refrigerated truck....

Good to know, and I think it proves my point that the rule is worded as it is for a reason. Thanks. Just a thought though, if it is a desire of the BOD to prohibit meat outside of the cook site, the wording I suggested should allow that and the refrigerated truck. The rep would have to approve the teams taking meat to the refrigerated truck, but I wouldn't see that a as a problem.

dmp

 

[Tarheel]

Lets assume that teams A and B share a cambro. Lets assume that Team A nailed their chicken, ribs, and brisket but tanked pork. Team B has really good pork. Only those cooks know what product was cooked by each team. It creates the opportunity for two teams to work together to gain a competitive advantage.

Ok, what would prevent two teams next to each other from doing this anyway? Again, it is up to 6 individuals to give both entries a score, I will still bet that the same meat from the same butt would get two diffrent scores. If you want to cheat there are ways.

For those that talked about the AC, where is the saftey in triming chicken on a 90+ degree day under an ezup. There is still no advantage gained by triming, seasoning, or storing your meat somewhere else if it is cooked on your own cooker.

Rule 7 means it can't leave the contest and go back to the motel or home. That was to prevent teams from going off the contest site with it. Still wouldnt prevent someone from bringing in some more.

Meat inspection is a formality that we go thru, how many of you have two coolers, you can have meat in for for inspection and meat in another already trimmed and seasoned to cook. We are on an honor system as it is, why make a rule that is not going to prevent someone cheating if they want too. While restricting the rest of us honest competitors.

 

[Tarheel]

.....
Dishwashing I'm on the fence on. There is a rule that each site must have the tubs for washing. Seems to me there is an intent there. May that ones intent is just to mollify the health department.

There is no rule that says you have to have tubs for washing. That comes from some health departments at some contest, not the KCBS.

 

[dhuffjr]

Rule 17d mentions three containers in the work area.

 

[Jorge]

Ok, what would prevent two teams next to each other from doing this anyway? Again, it is up to 6 individuals to give both entries a score, I will still bet that the same meat from the same butt would get two diffrent scores. If you want to cheat there are ways.

Nothing prevents them from doing it, if they are determined to do it. The rule just forces them to be more obvious about it and take a greater risk of being caught. I think the rule is reasonable. I don't think the additional cost of a cooler or cambro is too much of a burden for a team to deal with. You clearly disagree.

 

[Tarheel]

Rule 17d mentions three containers in the work area.

You are correct, I stand corrected, it does talk about the requirement for those items. Then the reps need to start checking that as well and dq anyone who doesnt have it or require them to go purchase them before they can compete.

My point is lets dont regulate this to death! I already have to deal with Obama Care.