Comps dropping off

Fat Freddy said:

Dont get me wrong this is not a complaint about big teams, it is more how things are handled by organizers. The solutions you offered would both be worthy solutions unfortunately how many organizers would do that and that is the issue. While the complaint is not about big name teams, because it is not, shouldnt they, he in this case, have to follow same rules as others no matter what. I have seen plenty of big name teams follow rules, sign up when supposed to and even give extra room if neighbor takes a bit much but if sign up is until certain team amount or date then everyone should have same rules

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Fred, moeing you like I do I'm surprised you were not moe forthright in your feelings about being bounced towards the chitters. In the future you have my permission to be moe upset and not let this go unchecked any moe.
Ed

ModelMaker said:

Fred, moeing you like I do I'm surprised you were not moe forthright in your feelings about being bounced towards the chitters. In the future you have my permission to be moe upset and not let this go unchecked any moe.
Ed

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Of course I wont mention any names :biggrin1:

tduffy said:

Providing meats doesn't level the playing field, it shuffles it. If you want to kill competition BBQ, make us cook provided meats and not allow us to trim at home. If that ever happens Just give me a heads up so I can sell my trailer and equipment before the market gets too flooded...

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I completely overlooked the advantages to trimming at home. And aside from the obvious...., there is also a food safety standpoint of keeping your food cold and being able to adequately keep the work area, cutting boards and tools clean. One year I was cooking on the amateur side of a charity competition and one of the pro teams was next to us. Watching them prep chicken in 95° heat did not look like fun.

gettinbasted said:

...Go buy a case of pork. Look at each butt. Are they the same quality? Probably only 2 out of the 10 have marbling and a money muscle. Maybe another 2 will have one or the other. So 2 out of 10 are good competition butts. The other 8 are to varying degrees lesser (competition) quality. If I get one of those 2 good butts, I promise that you did not make things equal.

Now do the same for the other 3 meats plus add in an organizer that doesn’t know what competition quality meat is sorting through it and what do you have? A lottery.

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Excellent point. Sorting is everything. Because the additional savings on case price, my Sam's club will let me sort through several cases of brisket or butts in order to build my own case.

I think there is/was too much $$$ in BBQ for the health of the sport, and what it is.

My crazy theory- feel free to tell me to go back to EAD'ville

Lower entry fees, lower prize money would encourage more participation while limiting the desire to spend $$$ on cook trailers, Ultra premium meats. The spread between the guys doing their first contest with a couple wsm's and a tent and the teams that are GC contenders at each contest is huge. There is no room for error in our region. 5 years ago, you could place top 3 and have no idea wtf you where really doing with at least one category. Now even with a perfect cook, you might end up 5-10.

Our area once had 13 contests just a few years ago. This year its 7 and that includes a double. I def believe BBQ is on a downslide from my perspective.

Oddly enough, Ive been against the meat provided contests after some super negative experiences on the local level, now Im thinking there may be something to it for the cost limiting factor-Restrictor plates on teams.

Our local BBQ society started pushing a Backyard division. Logic would lead you to believe it would be a gateway to competing on the pro side. Instead, teams are returning to defend their backyard championships

The money part of competition BBQ is usually the first thing mentioned. And It has every bit of merit to be. This game is incredibly expensive. Upon completing my taxes I got to see exactly how much I spent last year. There's a lot of things I could have done with the amount of money I spent. But.... I love competing.



However I think it's worth mentioning another part of competition BBQ that is often overlooked and that is the time and effort that is required to be successful. I think a lot of people have overlooked that and as Untraceable has mentioned above, a few years ago you could get a call or 2 in this region without trying too hard. Not anymore. You have to be dedicated to it, be taking classes and always looking to find an edge and improving as a cook, the teams around you are. If you aren't you are getting left behind. I think many didn't understand really how time of their lives it would require to be competitive. You need to be cooking as many contests as you can as consistency is king.

I guess what I'm trying to say is for some, the effort required is more than some are willing to put in, regardless of the cost. We can't place all the blame on that.

Another issue we have in this region is multiple contests on the same date. The beginning of June, there are 3 contests all withing driving distance of me on the same date. I'd cook all 3 If they weren't. When I look at my potential 2019 schedule I run into that multiple times. And I look at the board meeting agenda for this month and there's an Iowa contest that wants to move it's date to the same time as a well established contest 132 miles away.

tduffy said:

Another issue we have in this region is multiple contests on the same date. The beginning of June, there are 3 contests all withing driving distance of me on the same date. I'd cook all 3 If they weren't. When I look at my potential 2019 schedule I run into that multiple times. And I look at the board meeting agenda for this month and there's an Iowa contest that wants to move it's date to the same time as a well established contest 132 miles away.

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I'm pretty frustrated at that Iowa comp. We loved it, and at the banquet this year traded for an entry into it. Now they want to move it to the week before the Royal, which we purposely leave open, and we probably won't do it now.

midwest_kc said:

I'm pretty frustrated at that Iowa comp. We loved it, and at the banquet this year traded for an entry into it. Now they want to move it to the week before the Royal, which we purposely leave open, and we probably won't do it now.

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I voiced my opinion earlier today to a board member. I hope it's not allowed to move. They are gonna hurt themselves doing it. No way both of these 2 contests will get 25 teams the weekend before the royal. Last year we had to beg, borrow and steal to get to 25 in Vermillion, now we have to compete with a contest 132 miles away.

tduffy said:

I voiced my opinion earlier today to a board member. I hope it's not allowed to move. They are gonna hurt themselves doing it. No way both of these 2 contests will get 25 teams the weekend before the royal. Last year we had to beg, borrow and steal to get to 25 in Vermillion, now we have to compete with a contest 132 miles away.

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This is one of those times when I'd suggest emailing the entire board with your concerns. That info you shared is hugely important. If you don't share it there is no guarantee that the entire board will be aware of it.

Ron_L said:

I agree! We were much more consistent when we cooked 16-18 a year! But, thanks to my new job, I can't do that many, and we've shortened our acceptable drive since we are trying to only use a 1/2 day of vacation for each competition. I would love to do more, but just can't and still have a job :-D

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Well Ron, there appears to be a negative common denominator here. To badly misquote an icon, "A man needs to know his priorities".

Seriously (I think I can ...), you guys who do the comp's, looking for six (how many judges?) perfect mind blowing bites from large expensive cuts of meat, are crazy. But God bless ya.

--Spent my money on boats, booze and bimbos, the rest I wasted. Me thinks you guys are in the same category.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it is “professional” BBQ. Some teams don’t have the time or resources to compete with the big dogs so the immediate answer is to bring them down to their level so they can still play. How does that make any sense? It’s the major leagues. It’s not for everyone.

That being said, with the divide between the haves and have nots KCBS needs to concentrate on divisions. Take golf for example. Not everyone belongs on the pro tour, but everyone can play in a local club event.

I get that people like competing against and beating the big dogs, but you can’t have it both ways. Look at me! Making friends! Again!

gettinbasted said:

Another thing to keep in mind is that it is “professional” BBQ. Some teams don’t have the time or resources to compete with the big dogs so the immediate answer is to bring them down to their level so they can still play. How does that make any sense? It’s the major leagues. It’s not for everyone.

That being said, with the divide between the haves and have nots KCBS needs to concentrate on divisions. Take golf for example. Not everyone belongs on the pro tour, but everyone can play in a local club event.

I get that people like competing against and beating the big dogs, but you can’t have it both ways. Look at me! Making friends! Again!

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Logistically it might be hard to have another division, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

It was actually getting beat by teams like you that made me realize two things:
1) The elite teams are really really good and no judging changes, rule changes, meat provisions, or anything else will change that.
2) It is impossible for a team like me (6-10 comps a year) to expect anything other than a mixed result when competing.

If I compete and get beat by you (this is not hypothetical, but rather real life data over the last two years), I will go home and "improve." I will then go to a contest "improved" and ready to win sometime in the next two months. The problems is you have competed 6 times since I last saw you and I don't think you are getting any worse. In that regard I don't consider myself a backyard team, but I am also not on your level.

I am not knocking the system or the top teams. I made a substantial investment in terms of both time and money trying to become "elite" cooking 6-10 comps a year, and after three years I have determined it can't be done...at least not in this area.

As fight fan I think of it like this. Not anyone can get in the ring and compete. However, there is some talent that needs developed and belongs on the "undercard." We are an under card team with nothing but respect for the PPV draws.

gettinbasted said:

Another thing to keep in mind is that it is “professional” BBQ. Some teams don’t have the time or resources to compete with the big dogs so the immediate answer is to bring them down to their level so they can still play. How does that make any sense? It’s the major leagues. It’s not for everyone.

That being said, with the divide between the haves and have nots KCBS needs to concentrate on divisions. Take golf for example. Not everyone belongs on the pro tour, but everyone can play in a local club event.

I get that people like competing against and beating the big dogs, but you can’t have it both ways. Look at me! Making friends! Again!

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^^this^^

Way back when when I was a professional gun fighter the USPSA(United States Practical Shooting Association) had almost this exact same issue: It took skill, time, effort and money to be at the top echelon and there were many complaints from those without the resources or the work ethic. Their solution was to create 5 classes of shooters: Master, A,B,C, & D. Everyone was eligible for the Open prizes (GC/RGC Categories) but then awards were handed out in each class as well. It helped. The Mid Atlantic BBQ Associations has established a pretty good two tiered Team of the year system.

That all being said - USPSA was a lot bigger than KCBS so it was easier to break it down further. Second, How long before BBQ is pretty much giving out participation trophies and juice boxes?

Pro BBQ is hard, it's expensive and because of that it's a small competitor field. That's probably not going to change much. I think the real question is "How does Pro BBQ energize the spectator and sponsor pool?"

Slamdunkpro said:

^^this^^

Way back when when I was a professional gun fighter the USPSA(United States Practical Shooting Association) had almost this exact same issue: It took skill, time, effort and money to be at the top echelon and there were many complaints from those without the resources or the work ethic. Their solution was to create 5 classes of shooters: Master, A,B,C, & D. Everyone was eligible for the Open prizes (GC/RGC Categories) but then awards were handed out in each class as well. It helped. The Mid Atlantic BBQ Associations has established a pretty good two tiered Team of the year system.

That all being said - USPSA was a lot bigger than KCBS so it was easier to break it down further. Second, How long before BBQ is pretty much giving out participation trophies and juice boxes?

Pro BBQ is hard, it's expensive and because of that it's a small competitor field. That's probably not going to change much. I think the real question is "How does Pro BBQ energize the spectator and sponsor pool?"

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I agree it would be pretty hard to do. However, for something that costs $1,000 an outing and being willing to give up 20% of your weekends but still not being able to be competitive it might be worth investigating. I certainly don't want a juice box but being able to turn in a winning box given the above restrictions would be pretty cool even if it was the "B League."

Interesting thread. I’m new to the competition ring. I’ve only done one KCBS comp and enjoyed it. Will be doing another one this year.

Started a local backyard rib contest with an electric smoker 2 years ago. Someone unplugged my smoker and I’ve been obsessed ever since. Funny how a little thing like that will spark an obsession. I already liked bbq, but that set me off the deep end. 5 smokers later and I’m looking at a new one. Haha.

Some of the things that I see as a new person in this arena.

Cost has been mentioned. I believe that takes out a lot of people.

SCA comps have to be affecting new people that try both. SCA comps have cost advantage and time advantage. They also have steak practice advantage. My wife is sick of bbq at this point because I cook it so much trying to perfect it. I will try a SCA event this year and maybe I enjoy that more? I have 2 year old and another on the way in July. The time part is critical for me at this point in life.

I can’t answer if more or less comps in our area. I’ve looked at many weekends and can find comps most of the time within reasonable distance.

At the moment I realize 1 KCBS comp sets me up for a lot of failure when guys are cooking every weekend. I just enjoy the heck out of it and will probably get 4 events this year to compete and cook. 1 will be KCBS. I’ve taken one class and would like to do more.

All it takes is a good finish to itch that itch that is already there and do more. Right now I realize a KCBS comp is more of a donation, but that doesn’t mean I’m not trying to win.


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gettinbasted said:

Another thing to keep in mind is that it is “professional” BBQ. Some teams don’t have the time or resources to compete with the big dogs so the immediate answer is to bring them down to their level so they can still play. How does that make any sense? It’s the major leagues. It’s not for everyone.

That being said, with the divide between the haves and have nots KCBS needs to concentrate on divisions. Take golf for example. Not everyone belongs on the pro tour, but everyone can play in a local club event.

I get that people like competing against and beating the big dogs, but you can’t have it both ways. Look at me! Making friends! Again!

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Using the golf analogy.....maybe a handicap system

Pappy Q said:

Using the golf analogy.....maybe a handicap system

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There’s no handicaps on the pro tour...
We don’t compete as much as Brad, but I certainly don’t want him to spot me any points.