Brine meat with Foodsaver
- Thread starter jgame
- Start date
Are you saying to help speed up the process of brining if you don't have a long period of time to brine?
southernstyle
is one Smokin' Farker
maybe, but dont think so. maybe deep injection if your pressed for time, but thats stretching it as well.
isolated01
Full Fledged Farker
My food saver has a marinade mode. I think it adds a little extra something but not like taking the time to let it marinade overnight, as far as brine I have not tried it. Useless post
RevZiLLa
is One Chatty Farker
They do something like that on Iron Chef sometimes
Smokeadelic
Knows what a fatty is.
The cook is right. The vacuum won't help the brining go faster. It's a chemical process going on. Here's an explanation from a favortie cooking site of mine, www.cookingforengineers.com
The explanation for why brining works that I hear most often is that by surrounding the meat with salt water, salt and water are forced into the tissue through osmosis. Unfortunately, I've never been happy with that explanation. Osmosis is when a solvent (usually water or other liquid that can hold another substance, called the solute, in solution - like salt) moves from a low solute concentration (like the tissue of the meat) to a high solute concentration (like the salt water) through a semipermeable membrane (a surface that allows small particles to pass but not larger ones - like the cell membranes of our chicken or pork) to form an equilibrium. Hmmm... wait a minute. If that's true then water will be drawn from the low salt concentration meat to the high salt concentration salt water. At the same time, if the salt can enter the meat (which it can), then salt will be moving from salt water to meat. Won't that result in a salty, dry piece of poultry or pork?
Obviously, there's more going on than simple osmosis. It is true that salt enters the meat (it tastes more salty after brining). But why is it also more juicy? Well, when water flows out of the meat, salt flows in and begins to break down some of the proteins in the cells. In the broken down state, the molecules become more concentrated and the solute levels rise within the meat. This causes additional water to flow into the meat.
But doesn't that mean we've got the same amount of water as before brining? Nope. The cell membranes are semipermeable. They allow salt and water to flow in both directions freely, but larger molecules (like the denatured proteins and other solutes in the meat released by the salt) cannot flow out from within the cells. When the solutes of a solution on one side of a semipermeable membrane cannot pass to the other side, osmosis causes more and more solvent to move through the semipermeable membrane. This continues until the extra pressure from holding more solvent equals the rate at which solvent is "drawn" through the semipermeable membrane. (This rate is called osmotic pressure. How Stuff Works has a short article describing osmotic pressure with a diagram that may be helpful to visualize the water flow.)
What has happened is that through brining, we've caused a state change in the cells so that they will draw and hold more water than before. As we cook the meat, the heated proteins will begin to draw in tighter and squeeze out water, but, hopefully, enough water will remain to produce a juicy, tender piece of meat.
bobbee
Wandering around with a bag of matchlight, looking for a match.
This weekend I was in a one steak cook-off. I Injected the steak with an injection mix and then put the steak in a FoodSaver hard plastic container. Covered the steak with Brisket Chipote Brine solution mix and the vacuumed the container using the FoodSaver. I vacuumed the container about 3 times until I saw no more bubbles coming from the solution. The Meat stayed in the container for 52 minutes. When I took the steak out, the meat was almost falling apart it got so tender. I then coated with my rub cooked the steak via Alton Brown's Porter House Steak method, 00:01:45 per side top and bottom. The steak came out perfect Med Rare. I took 3rd place. The only reason I did not take 2nd or 1st was because I mis-cut the steak and the 5th piece I was force to put in the turn in box was really a bad piece.
I for one think putting the meat under pressure does the trick. I have one more competition before end of year. Going to try this on 1/2 of my chicken.
I for one think putting the meat under pressure does the trick. I have one more competition before end of year. Going to try this on 1/2 of my chicken.
My first FoodSaver mentioned speeding up marinating times by vacuum sealing in bags, and it also came with a hard plastic marinating tray that hooked up via a rubber hose. I tried it a couple of times with brines and couldn't see any advantage.
Maybe if you used a Jaccard, then vacuum sealed??
Maybe if you used a Jaccard, then vacuum sealed??
SonnyE
is one Smokin' Farker
I use a Foodsaver Vacuum Marinading Chamber to make my Jerky.
My daughter in Washington State uses hers to do vacuum marinading. Takes about 20 minutes.
So you should be able to do brining with one.
Or you might like to look into one of these Briners.
My daughter in Washington State uses hers to do vacuum marinading. Takes about 20 minutes.
So you should be able to do brining with one.
Or you might like to look into one of these Briners.
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Lots of hidden science involved with brining, and I don't see an advantage to vac sealing the brine unless you really have a time crunch.
It would be easy to over-brine meat and slide into curing, depending on what your brine ingredients are. Brines are meant to enhance the meat flavor, not overwhelm it.
If I brine meat, I plan ahead for it. I see no need to vac seal the brine.
It would be easy to over-brine meat and slide into curing, depending on what your brine ingredients are. Brines are meant to enhance the meat flavor, not overwhelm it.
If I brine meat, I plan ahead for it. I see no need to vac seal the brine.
IamMadMan
somebody shut me the fark up.
I have to agree with the others above, if you are pressed for time in the brining process, try injecting.
The only benefit of using a vac-sealer for brining or marinading is self containment of the liquid. Water would boil in the presence of a vacuum, so the removal of air in marinating is simply to prevent oxidation to promote bonding for flavors (it doesn't create a vacuum as implied).
But use caution, unless you have a chamber vac-sealer, liquids can damage your suction vac-sealer. That is why most suction sealers have a manual mode or marinating mode to help prevent liquids from being drawn into the machine.
Marinades are different from Brines:
Marinades are liquids that meat rests in for a short time before cooking. They usually contain water, salt, oil, flavoring, and some type of acid. Marinades are used for flavoring. Marinades do not tenderize meat (unless a tenderizing agent is added), they are strictly used for adding flavors.
Marinades usually do not contain sugar. If marinades contain sugar, they could burn and ruin the food when cooking too hot and too fast, like steaks and chops. Sugar is less of a problem in brines because the meat is slow roasting at lower temperatures when smoking.
While marinades do not burn because they contain no sugar, they can create other problems in cooking. Marinades keep the surface wet and can impede browning and crisping of the surface of the meat. We all know that browned meat has much more flavor. The moist surface somewhat changes the texture of the food when biting into it. Marinades do not penetrate the meat very far, usually less than a quarter of an inch. Because marinades do not penetrate the meat very far, the flavors and spices are usually concentrated on the surface. When you bite into the marinated food the concentrated flavors on the surface carries enough for the entire bite. What marinades do best is find their way into cracks and crevices on the surface of meats making a flavorful surface. The added oil of a marinade helps to facilitate surface browning while keeping the sub-surface moist and flavorful.
Brines are liquids that meat rests in for a given period of time before cooking. They usually contain water, salt, sugar, and sometimes flavoring. Brines penetrate deep into the meat over time and denature the protein bonds to help tenderize it. Brines can also be injected into the meat.
Brines are a solution of salt dissolved in liquid. Brines may also have added aromatics and herbs to impart flavors into foods/meats. Meat and fish are typically steeped in brine as a form of marinating to enhance tenderness and flavor.
Our own PATIO DADDIO (John Dawson) describes it best; The entire process of brining can be described that nature wants a balance. When you submerge the meat into the brine, you have created an imbalance that nature tries to remedy. The process of achieving this balance in is called equilibrium. You've created an imbalance where the concentration of the water, salt, and sugar outside the meat is much higher than inside the meat."
Given this situation, nature goes to work trying to reestablish its required equilibrium. The cells inside the meat are surrounded by a semi-permeable membrane. Small molecules like water, salt, and sugar can pass through this membrane, but larger molecules like proteins cannot. Through a process of osmosis by diffusion, the cell moves water, salt and sugar in and out of the cells trying to get things back into balance with the surrounding liquid. Also, since most brines contain flavorings in the solution, the cell unwittingly seasons itself, as it allows the brine into the cells. As the salt concentration in the cell increases it causes some of the tightly-wound proteins to unravel, or denature, and relax a bit. This allows the cell to take on even more of the solution. Some proteins in the cell actually denature completely and are liquefied. Denatured proteins will result in a more moist and tender product.
During the cooking process, the proteins will bind with one another and squeeze out moisture. However, the magic of brining continues during the cooking process; brining will add 10% or more moisture content to the weight of the meat and many proteins are denatured. So, even though normal cooking usually causes a 20% weight loss in moisture, we started with 10% or more added liquid. The denatured proteins can no longer bind in mass amounts, so the actual moisture loss is much less, resulting in a more tender and moist product.
Injections for meat are a quick method of distributing the brine deep in the tissue of the meat. Injections are usually made with diluted half strength brines using a syringe and a special needle. Injections are a common practice in BBQ competitions.
The only benefit of using a vac-sealer for brining or marinading is self containment of the liquid. Water would boil in the presence of a vacuum, so the removal of air in marinating is simply to prevent oxidation to promote bonding for flavors (it doesn't create a vacuum as implied).
But use caution, unless you have a chamber vac-sealer, liquids can damage your suction vac-sealer. That is why most suction sealers have a manual mode or marinating mode to help prevent liquids from being drawn into the machine.
Marinades are different from Brines:
Marinades are liquids that meat rests in for a short time before cooking. They usually contain water, salt, oil, flavoring, and some type of acid. Marinades are used for flavoring. Marinades do not tenderize meat (unless a tenderizing agent is added), they are strictly used for adding flavors.
Marinades usually do not contain sugar. If marinades contain sugar, they could burn and ruin the food when cooking too hot and too fast, like steaks and chops. Sugar is less of a problem in brines because the meat is slow roasting at lower temperatures when smoking.
While marinades do not burn because they contain no sugar, they can create other problems in cooking. Marinades keep the surface wet and can impede browning and crisping of the surface of the meat. We all know that browned meat has much more flavor. The moist surface somewhat changes the texture of the food when biting into it. Marinades do not penetrate the meat very far, usually less than a quarter of an inch. Because marinades do not penetrate the meat very far, the flavors and spices are usually concentrated on the surface. When you bite into the marinated food the concentrated flavors on the surface carries enough for the entire bite. What marinades do best is find their way into cracks and crevices on the surface of meats making a flavorful surface. The added oil of a marinade helps to facilitate surface browning while keeping the sub-surface moist and flavorful.
Brines are liquids that meat rests in for a given period of time before cooking. They usually contain water, salt, sugar, and sometimes flavoring. Brines penetrate deep into the meat over time and denature the protein bonds to help tenderize it. Brines can also be injected into the meat.
Brines are a solution of salt dissolved in liquid. Brines may also have added aromatics and herbs to impart flavors into foods/meats. Meat and fish are typically steeped in brine as a form of marinating to enhance tenderness and flavor.
Our own PATIO DADDIO (John Dawson) describes it best; The entire process of brining can be described that nature wants a balance. When you submerge the meat into the brine, you have created an imbalance that nature tries to remedy. The process of achieving this balance in is called equilibrium. You've created an imbalance where the concentration of the water, salt, and sugar outside the meat is much higher than inside the meat."
Given this situation, nature goes to work trying to reestablish its required equilibrium. The cells inside the meat are surrounded by a semi-permeable membrane. Small molecules like water, salt, and sugar can pass through this membrane, but larger molecules like proteins cannot. Through a process of osmosis by diffusion, the cell moves water, salt and sugar in and out of the cells trying to get things back into balance with the surrounding liquid. Also, since most brines contain flavorings in the solution, the cell unwittingly seasons itself, as it allows the brine into the cells. As the salt concentration in the cell increases it causes some of the tightly-wound proteins to unravel, or denature, and relax a bit. This allows the cell to take on even more of the solution. Some proteins in the cell actually denature completely and are liquefied. Denatured proteins will result in a more moist and tender product.
During the cooking process, the proteins will bind with one another and squeeze out moisture. However, the magic of brining continues during the cooking process; brining will add 10% or more moisture content to the weight of the meat and many proteins are denatured. So, even though normal cooking usually causes a 20% weight loss in moisture, we started with 10% or more added liquid. The denatured proteins can no longer bind in mass amounts, so the actual moisture loss is much less, resulting in a more tender and moist product.
Injections for meat are a quick method of distributing the brine deep in the tissue of the meat. Injections are usually made with diluted half strength brines using a syringe and a special needle. Injections are a common practice in BBQ competitions.
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Retired RailRoader
Knows what a fatty is.
How many lbs. of jerky fit into the container? I’ve been looking for an inexpensive way to try to get more favor into my jerky. I even looked into a vacuum tumbler (https://www.amazon.com/STX-Internat...571921315&sprefix=Marinate+vac,aps,148&sr=8-2)
Radrob
Full Fledged Farker
I vac brined chops a while back, read what Madman said.
.https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274934
.https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=274934
sarth67
Full Fledged Farker
who ever hacked you asked a pretty good question.
It was also 8 years ago: " 11-11-2011, 04:12 PM"
Dplorable
is Blowin Smoke!
Vacuum tumblers look like a slick operation but I have never tried one.
http://promaxvac.com/what-do-vacuum-tumblers-do/
http://promaxvac.com/what-do-vacuum-tumblers-do/
EricD
is Blowin Smoke!
I love the scientific explanations!
Sounds like it might be good to vacuum pork belly to make bacon...
Sounds like it might be good to vacuum pork belly to make bacon...
