I just don't get this probes like buttah with brisket..?!?

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rikun

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I've cooked around 80+ flats (packers are really hard to find here overseas) and few packers I scored one time... Some have been awesome, some okay and some bland. Most of them I've more or less overcooked, since I've been waiting them to probe like buttah...

I usually cook them hot and fast at about 325, about four hours smoke and then foil. When I think they are done, I pull them, vent for about 10-15 minutes to stop carry over cooking and then FTC for 2-3 hours depending on schedule.

I still don't get the probe feel, either my flats are never going to be probe tender, or I'm taking the whole warm butter thing too literally.

Should I probe all the way to the bottom of the flat or just to the center? I always get some resistance when I probe deep (ahem), but there is no resistance 2/3 the way in. There might be some areas on the flat that have some resistance, but they are usually not in the thickest part. Or should I probe from the side?

And sometimes, like today, there was one flat that had no resistance anywhere and I was pretty certain it was done. It finished way earlier than the other ones and it was pretty spot on... I guess the other ones could have been done at the same time, but they didn't really feel like it at all...

With pork butts I really understand the concept, since they always feel very much like probing warm butter, really tender.

I'm probing with my Thermapen, not paying any attention to the reading, but I seldom pull before 210. I think I might have better luck pulling everything at 203-205 than continuing doing what I've been doing for now...
 
Cheap briskets may never feel exactly like butta but by now you should beable to identify the point where the meat releases
 
Cooking that hot, you may want to try wrapping an hour earlier and begin probing at hour four for doneness. Flats without the insulation and moisture retention value of a point will dry out pretty fast, I think you may be over cooking them a little.:-D
 
You say you have overcooked many. How would you describe over cooked? Too me it means it won't hold a slice.
 
The feel you get with your pork butts is exactly how you want it to feel on your brisket. I know it is hard to comprehend because after MANY hours of cooking, you think that if it probes with just a little resistance then it must be done....but it's not.
 
Hi guys, Haven't been around in a while. Working like crazy. Let me give this a go.

"Probe like Buttah" is a true statement. But, don't forget the "initial resistance".
1st, the probe should be blunt, about like an unsharpened pencil. (I use the blunt end of a wooden chopstick which is a little smaller than a pencil). By "initial resistance", what I mean is, when you push it in you should get some resistance at 1st. But, once you get past that, then it goes in like "Buttah". If you're looking for the probe to just go "in like Buttah" then you may be way over cooking.
I swear by this method, since every piece of meat is different, it's the only consistent way I've found to know when they're done.

Thanx to Big Mistah (I think that's who it was) for explaining it it to me way back when. Hope this helps.
 
You sure it's not Reindeer brisket, being in Finland and all... (yuk yuk).

there was one flat that had no resistance anywhere and I was pretty certain it was done. It finished way earlier than the other ones
Click to expand...

THAT is a very important point - not all meat cooks at the same rate.
(Your English is excellent - either you were schooled overseas or in private schools or self taught. How 'bout some pics of your hometown?)
 
In my opinion the phrase "like butter" is often a bit misused when talking about brisket. Yes the probe should slide in easily, but what you should really be looking for is how SMOOTHLY it goes in. I like to use a cake tester which is basically just a heavy gauge stiff wire that is flat on the end, not sharp.

If the connective tissue has not broken down all the way you will be able to feel it by slowly sliding the probe through the meat. Pay close attention and go slowly. On a brisket that isn't yet tender you will feel strands of connective tissue breaking as the end of the probe goes through. You can't just go by how easily it slides, because the meat is more dense on some than it is others.

Again. It should go through fairly easily, but it also needs to glide through smoothly. If it does and its not effortless, then that might just be the brisket that you have.
 
You mention cook time but never temperature. I agree with most that seem to point to you pulling them too soon. I'd wager you're slightly undercooking them the way you are describing. It's amazing the difference between a 195 degree and a 204 degree brisket can be sometimes.
 
smoke ninja said:
You say you have overcooked many. How would you describe over cooked? Too me it means it won't hold a slice.
Click to expand...

Pics would help. Tough/chewy and dry is way different that falling apart and dry.
 
pjtexas1 said:
Pics would help. Tough/chewy and dry is way different that falling apart and dry.
Click to expand...

Q-Dat said:
In my opinion the phrase "like butter" is often a bit misused when talking about brisket. Yes the probe should slide in easily, but what you should really be looking for is how SMOOTHLY it goes in. I like to use a cake tester which is basically just a heavy gauge stiff wire that is flat on the end, not sharp.

If the connective tissue has not broken down all the way you will be able to feel it by slowly sliding the probe through the meat. Pay close attention and go slowly. On a brisket that isn't yet tender you will feel strands of connective tissue breaking as the end of the probe goes through. You can't just go by how easily it slides, because the meat is more dense on some than it is others.

Again. It should go through fairly easily, but it also needs to glide through smoothly. If it does and its not effortless, then that might just be the brisket that you have.
Click to expand...

As indicated above, tough, chewy, and dry is an indication of being undercooked. A brisket that is overcooked literally crumbles and falls apart when you try to slice it.

Your term "bland" is confusing: It could be because it is not fully cooked not releasing juices, but could also be from a lack of adding seasonings.
 
When you probe and get just a little resistance and are in that unsure state of mind, probe the very edge of the flat. You will probably find that spot to probe very tender and give you that butter feel. That's what you want throughout the flat.
 
If its any help how I know its done is I will probe it (not done) give it an hour or whatever probe it, feels the same (not done) repeat (not done) repeat this until it feels different... much less resistance... (same area each time, thickest part of the flat). At this point its ready to give it up.

You can just tell by the difference in how much resistance is and how it changes as it gets done

best way I can explain it
 
You are cooking hot and fast. I would not just pull at 203-204 Most Briskets that I have cooked at 300+ have not been done before 210-215. 203 is more of a finishing temp for a brisket cooked at 225. As stated above, it sounds like you are undercooking if anything, not over.

When probing, I drive my probe all the way through the brisket in several places. It should slide all the way through evenly and easily. If you meet with some resistance, its not done yet.
 
After cooking about a dozen brisket in a year I started to learn how they feel when done. They get loose, not sure if it's the best term but I'm no wordsmith. I think experience is the best way to get the feel.
 
I think part of the issue is cooking flats at high heat. My understanding is that the window of perfect doneness of a flat is short and cooking at high heat makes it even shorter.
 
I learned the difference between undercooked and overcooked flat a long time ago, to this date I've maybe undercooked a couple of them. Most of them are dry and nearly impossible to slice (so overcooked). And they've still had resistance when I pulled them :-o

The edge of the flat feels sometimes like it has no resistance, but sometimes the edge might have _more_ resistance than the center, which is weird...

A while ago I got three perfectly cooked flats, I had to pull them "early" because of our timing when they still had a bit of resistance left. I'm thinking that should be the standard when probing other flats? Or maybe that was just a fluke...

The flats that I buy come from the States and are "ungraded", since export meat is seldom graded. The European distributor explained to me they are not below Select, or Choice, but simply just not graded. They look good, have pretty good marbling, enough fat and are wet aged for around 40-55 days when I get them. I pick the best looking ones, usually around 6-7 pounds per flat. Here's an example of one of the better ones:



Thanks for the kind words, no private schools, just a lot of watching X-files before our elementary school :grin: So I guess that means self taught :wink: They do start teaching us English when we are six, though.

My hometown is not much of a town, I grew up in a farm where all my smokers (one big baby drum, four UDS') still reside with my folks:



I guess I'm just thick headed, I haven't counted, but I guess I've done almost hundred flats and still can't get it right :oops:
 
It is FAR easier to cook a Packer the a lone flat, The reason that the edges are burning up is they are to thin I use my index finger to gauge a brisket thickness anything thinner than the distance between the tip of my finger and the 1/2 way point between the first and second knuckle I cut off it goes into the grind pile. Better to use in for sausage ,meatballs, chile& burgers than to waste it by burning it up.

Go to the thickest spot of the flat and probe there the rest of the piece is of no consequence. When it probes tender there the rest will be as tender as a mothers love. To be honest most flats are a little dry because of the lack of marbling. There is a small window where it will be more moist but it will never be "squirt ya in the eye juicy". The moisture comes from the Collagen converting to gelatin the secret is to cook it just long enough that it is probe tender and the conversion has just finished. If you go to long it will leach out in the pit. If you wrap it and hold it with out letting it cool down it will leach out in to the foil, you have to let that meat rest uncovered for 30 min to let it stop cooking before you wrap it n foil to hold it. OR switch to butcher paper and let it rest on the counter top for 2 hrs before serving.
 
These days, I don't cook at the high temperatures I used to, but since they say "low and slow" is the way to go, you might try backing off a bit on the heat. And if you're probing with a Thermapen, try pulling the brisket at about 180 F, then wrapping it in foil to rest for an hour or two off heat. That's been giving me perfect results - tender, juicy, but definitely done all the way through. I've read somewhere that taking it up to 190 is better for pulling, but I only slice briskets so 180 works very well for me.
 
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