WTF is Wrong with People??? - Part II

Swine Spectator

Swine Spectator

is Blowin Smoke!
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David
I didn't want to thread-jack Ron_L's Beyond Burnt Ends post, so I started a sequel thread.

I strongly suspect that time will show these "Plant-Based" meat alternatives to be extremely unhealthy.

Earlier this year, the FDA issued a warning about grain-free dog foods being linked to canine heart disease.

(Reference: https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/n...to-know-about-the-fdas-grain-free-diet-alert/)

I did some reading on the topic and switched my dog's food this summer. The articles I read specifically called out pea protein isolate, soy protein isolate, and potato protein isolate as culprits. Well guess which ingredients feature prominently in Beyond Meat and Impossible Products?

picture.php

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If I won't feed it to my dog, I damn sure ain't serving it to my family.

Note also that you get a large dose of canola oil and coconut oil along with bamboo cellulose. A Twitter post described it thusly:

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Additionally, soy protein is a source of phytoestrogens:
Phytoestrogens are plant derived compounds found in a wide variety of foods, most notably soy. A litany of health benefits including a lowered risk of osteoporosis, heart disease, breast cancer, and menopausal symptoms, are frequently attributed to phytoestrogens but many are also considered endocrine disruptors, indicating that they have the potential to cause adverse health effects as well. Consequently, the question of whether or not phytoestrogens are beneficial or harmful to human health remains unresolved.
Click to expand...
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074428/),

Personally, I think there is no way these products are more healthy than simply prepared real meat products.

Thoughts Brethren?
 
Sending this to my son's GF, who's just gone vego...

I do respect that, but then all this fake meat started turning up. And she's iron deficient anyway? :crazy:
 
Swine Spectator said:
Personally, I think there is no way these products are more healthy than simply prepared real meat products.

Thoughts Brethren?
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree with you...I'm not that old and in my lifetime I've weathered the "food pyramid", eggs are bad, all fat is bad, all cholesterol is bad now only some, etc only to find out 10 or 15 years later they "experts" recanted and now the opposite is true. I think probably the best food to eat is what humanoid thingies ate for however many thousands of years prior to modern technology and screw what the latest "expert" thinks. If it comes in a box or a bag, probably not great. If you think otherwise, read the ingredients.

Interesting about the dog food...I'll have to look into that some more.
 
The now 50+ year American infatuation with dietary recommendations that limited meat and fat and as a result pushed people into lo-fat hi-carb diets is directly responsible for the US epidemic of obesity and cardiovascular disease (heart attacks/strokes). I cannot even imagine what these vegan experiments are going to cause down the line.
 
Swine Spectator said:
I didn't want to thread-jack Ron_L's Beyond Burnt Ends post, so I started a sequel thread.

I strongly suspect that time will show these "Plant-Based" meat alternatives to be extremely unhealthy.

Earlier this year, the FDA issued a warning about grain-free dog foods being linked to canine heart disease.

(Reference: https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/n...to-know-about-the-fdas-grain-free-diet-alert/)


If I won't feed it to my dog, I damn sure ain't serving it to my family.

Thoughts Brethren?
Click to expand...


I don't want to derail your thread either, and it sounds like you did your due diligence, but I do want to point out that the verdict is still out on grain-free food for dogs. The FDA says they are still gathering information and investigating (final paragraph from here: https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterina...rtain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy) on if there is a specific dietary link to the development of DCM in canines. The FDA was responding to reported cases of diagnosed DCM.



A couple of things to consider:
There were about 525 cases reported from 1/1/2014 through 4/30/2019. The FDA estimates that there are 77 million pet dogs in the US.


Of the 525 cases reported, at the time of publishing, the FDA had reviewed medical records of 340 of them. Of the 340, 202 dogs had DCM confirmed via cardiac ultrasounds.


I also personally think that there is probably a correlation between dog owners that are able to afford grain free dog food and dog owners that would get a cardiac ultrasound to test for DCM. By that, I mean, the vast majority of pet owners likely would not have cardiac ultrasound done to test for DCM. There are a couple of side effects of this presumption: there could be a huge number of undiagnosed cases of DCM in the US; there are almost certainly dogs that are eating grain-free food and don't get DCM (because cardiac ultrasounds aren't routine), but we don't know the numbers; and there is, in my opinion, a strong correlation between feeding grain-free food and getting cardiac ultrasounds and reporting that case to the FDA.


I don't suspect we'll have a good answer on this for quite some time. For me, the sample size was so small and the unknowns too many, to change what I fed my dogs. Again, not trying to change minds, just giving my couple of pennies. :grin:
 
sudsandswine said:
I'm inclined to agree with you...I'm not that old and in my lifetime I've weathered the "food pyramid", eggs are bad, all fat is bad, all cholesterol is bad now only some, etc only to find out 10 or 15 years later they "experts" recanted and now the opposite is true. I think probably the best food to eat is what humanoid thingies ate for however many thousands of years prior to modern technology and screw what the latest "expert" thinks. If it comes in a box or a bag, probably not great. If you think otherwise, read the ingredients...
Click to expand...

Pretty much sums up my thoughts regarding the "experts".

Butter is bad. Oops, Transfats are worse.
Eggs are bad. Oops, They didn't change my cholesterol.

A heavy bean, cereal grain, and plant-based diet, in general, is best IMHO. However, humans still need animal protein and cereal grains other than modern wheat which is more aligned with what got us here today. Teff, Quinoa, Oats, Milo, Triticale, etc. are all valuable to human health.

Regarding morbid obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc., saying it is all diet-related is partially true however, genetics and modern lifestyle are significant factors. There isn't just "one right answer" or "one magic pill" that will fix all this. Case in point, in the deep South, a lot of people still eat like they lived on the cotton plantation and plowed by mule; Today they sit at home and eat like they still worked on the plantation - very little physical activity and a high-calorie poor quality diet which leads to the classic health issue noted here and elsewhere as one example out of many.

Do we as a society eat more 'meat protein' then we need to? Certainly but, that also does not mean we should stop eating all meat either. Amino acids and trace minerals can be obtained from plants but, since most people do not have the discipline and access to the appropriate plants and knowledge to cook them, we still need meat.

Do modern vegans and other 'animal' avoiding diets fads and practitioners have the discipline of the Indian diet and the money to afford it outside of India? Plant products and cereal grains are becoming more available and affordable outside of "little India's" so, it is becoming possible to replicate that diet lifestyle here if someone wants too.

Like Keto, Veganism, and other trendy fads, some die-hard fans will see 'success' with those diets as they defined 'success' but, the real question is whether it is a lifestyle they can live with long-term that is really healthy.

Fake meat (artificial meat) I suspect is the next "butter". With the oils and fats in them, I see another 'transfat' style issue in the future. I want to eat a beet as a beet, not watch is run red all over my plate like a bloody steak.
 
NoNotTheDuo said:
I don't want to derail your thread either, and it sounds like you did your due diligence, but I do want to point out that the verdict is still out on grain-free food for dogs...

...I don't suspect we'll have a good answer on this for quite some time. For me, the sample size was so small and the unknowns too many, to change what I fed my dogs. Again, not trying to change minds, just giving my couple of pennies. :grin:
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think that we have a fairly limited understanding of nutrition. People seize on a theory and go one way or the other (vegan, keto, low-fat, etc.). I heard an analogy about flying a plate with limited data:

"I am going to fly a plane and I only care about airspeed."
"What about altitude, fuel, and heading?"
"I don't care, its all about airspeed. That's all you really need"

If you are interested in a deep dive into diet and nutrition, I recommend this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Nourishing-T...litically-Dictocrats/dp/0967089735/ref=sr_1_1

This lady is a PhD Nutritionist who did a study comparing other nutritionist's studied of defined populations. There are fish-only eskimos, vegetarian Indians, etc. It is NOT light reading, but I found it fascinating.
 
Personally I havent read anywhere that said these were suppose to be healthier than their meat counter parts. But that it was to reduce the amount of methane created by cattle. The whole lab grown meat is suppose to help reduce cattle population and thus “fight global warming”. However you want to look at it. I can’t see these products being that much worse for you then smoke infused real meat. But hey that’s just my opinion. I like the impossible burger, it has a pretty darn good taste to it but it’ll never replace a real burger, that’s for sure.
 
This is my favorite stats about Impossible Whopper vs Whopper:

Impossible Whopper
Calories: 630
Fat: 34 grams
Saturated fat: 11 grams
Sodium: 1,080 grams
Carbohydrates: 58 grams
Fiber: 4 grams
Protein: 25 grams
Sugar: 12 grams

Whopper
Calories: 660
Fat: 40 grams
Saturated fat: 12 grams
Sodium: 980 grams
Carbohydrates: 49 grams
Fiber: 2 grams
Protein: 28 grams
Sugar: 11 grams

Whopper has more Calories, fats and more protein (It is from a cow after all), but less sodium, carbs, sugars and fiber. You decide what's more important to you, taste or more salt. :p
 
Great marketing on BK's behalf.

No meat? By virtue of that, it simply HAS to be healthy. :p

Grab one before you fill your car with gluten-free gas. :roll:
 
Well you better throw out the chocolate, since you don't feed anything to your family that you wouldn't feed your dog. Same with coffee, tea, salt, avocados and grapes, since all of these items will potentially kill a dog.
 
I'm Beyond Meat.
I eat Pork and Salmon and some other fish now.
But I occasionally eat Crab, Clams and other sinful things.
I use to eat anything except Rutabagas and Lima Beans.
But later in life discovered Lima beans with 51% Ham was tolerable. (52% to 90% ham was much better, though.)
I'm almost 70. I can tell you that Laundry detergent has ALWAYS been New and Improved! Really? Somebodies fully what comes out of bulls!
I've lived through more crap than a feedlot.
Beyond Meat is just another alternative for the brain-dead to flock to, until something "New and Improved" comes along for the flock to fly to.
I have cut way down on my red meat intake since my Widow-maker heart attack in 2010.
But WTF? WTF is people will do what people will do, be sheeple. That's WTF they do.
As for me, I still enjoy REAL butter on my toast. And avoid restaurant food, because who knows what BS is in that?
But who knows what BS is in anything?

Meanwhile, I just use what the hell ever the wife has for laundry soap...
(Some liquid clop...)
WTF? If I see 10 more years I'll be surprised. :laugh:
 
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