Wings for a chicken turn in?

[The Giggler]

do tell.

I would never out another team's entry, but when I was openly tooling with adding wings to the thigh turn in, I was really taken back by who has turned them in and the result. We're not talking new teams, we're talking about teams with multiple GCs.

For the record, I haven't had the stones to do wings or legs, when my chicken thighs have done so well over the years.

 

[boogiesnap]

fair enough. thought it was yourself.

i know of 1 team who does quite well with a wing and thigh turn in.

but, what i'm gathering from your response is the wing is more of a "burnt end" bonus.

i appreciate your response.

 

[Rookie'48]

As a personal view, I'm not going to care what the cut of bird is - all I want is for the cook to do a dead-on job of preparing it. I've seen wings only in a box maybe once a year, if that. I'll score them on their own merit as presented by the cook, but I think that some other judges might not feel that way. A team that I've cooked with used to do skinless cornish hind quarters (talk about a full box!) and they did well for a while then they didn't.

 

[The Giggler]

fair enough. thought it was yourself.

i know of 1 team who does quite well with a wing and thigh turn in.

but, what i'm gathering from your response is the wing is more of a "burnt end" bonus.

i appreciate your response.

Personally, wings are my first choice for eating. If I thought they would consistently be received and scored well in a judge's tent, I might commit. Having worked on a recipe for chicken legs for 8 months, removing all the connective tissue, and acheiving butter bath free bite through skin, I'm just not ready to get away from an entry and trim that usually scores pretty well.

I have done the wing-thigh turn in twice. Problem is, you don't really know which piece was scored, or if it was a combination of both. That's the only drawback to a bonus piece in any box.

 

[bover]

I have done the wing-thigh turn in twice. Problem is, you don't really know which piece was scored, or if it was a combination of both. That's the only drawback to a bonus piece in any box.

If it's KCBS, the judge is supposed to be scoring those as a combination of both.

 

[boogiesnap]

Personally, wings are my first choice for eating. If I thought they would consistently be received and scored well in a judge's tent, I might commit. Having worked on a recipe for chicken legs for 8 months, removing all the connective tissue, and acheiving butter bath free bite through skin, I'm just not ready to get away from an entry and trim that usually scores pretty well.

I have done the wing-thigh turn in twice. Problem is, you don't really know which piece was scored, or if it was a combination of both. That's the only drawback to a bonus piece in any box.

thanks, i agree 100%. wings are so darn tasty, i get that they don't score well, typically, but question why.

you make a good point about bonus meat.

i, as well, have been dialing in a thigh for about 3 months. it's what i'm going with next comp and see where it gets me.

last, sorry again for asking to reveal other teams boxes. that was out of line and unprofessional.

 

[The Giggler]

If it's KCBS, the judge is supposed to be scoring those as a combination of both.

EXACTLY, and you have to trust that the CBJs know what they are doing, and Table Captain is following through on that. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that not every judge takes a sample of each.

Say they do take some of each - how would you break down your score after getting your sheets? The score is a combination of the two - perhaps the thighs were awful and the wings were awesome. By having multiple items in a box, you take the chance of scoring lower because the score was averaged. My 2 cents.

 

[Rookie'48]

If it's KCBS, the judge is supposed to be scoring those as a combination of both.

By having multiple items in a box, you take the chance of scoring lower because the score was averaged. My 2 cents.

Winner, winner!!!

In a KCBS contest we're supposed to judge "as presented by the cook". If it's in the box I'm gonna look at, touch, feel, taste & judge it. That's the danger of using multiple cuts in the box - if the sliced pork is great (9) and the chunks are great (9) and the pulled is a mushy mess (6) how do you think I should score it?

 

[MoKanMeathead]

I agree with Mike...about any category. I have tried wings with thighs, burnt ends with slices, pulled/chunked/slices of pork, and even once spares and BBs. You never know if one of the presentations did good and the other bad, both good, neither good, etc.

I do know good teams that present all of the above (except the spares/BBs) and do well consistently. But when you get a bad (or good) score you really don't know which presentation was good or bad.

 

[MoKanMeathead]

Oh and BTW NorthwestBBQ...good looking chicken box above!!

 

[billygbob]

If it's KCBS, the judge is supposed to be scoring those as a combination of both.

Technically, there is no rule for that. It is not mentioned in the CD played (or rules read) during the judges meeting. Some reps will mention that cooks can turn in more than one cut/style in a single entry and recommend the judge sample each but that its not required. And there is no ruleon how to combine the relative merits of the different cuts/styles.

It would be nice for all parties if there was some clear KCBS guidelines/rules around this matter, but the KCBS BOD is the KCBS BOD and I don't expect any useful details in my lifetime. Sigh....

Edit: OBTW - The wings and wing/thigh combos get a nice thumbs-up from me.

 

[Bentley]

Would anyone mind providing some guideance on the reasoning behind this. Do judges actually deduct based on which piece you provide?

Thanks!

Are they supposed to, no...Do I think a fair amount do, yes.

And at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, sure would be nice to see something other then a candy coated thigh now and then...

 

[boogiesnap]

Are they supposed to, no...Do I think a fair amount do, yes.

And at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, sure would be nice to see something other then a candy coated thigh now and then...

it'd be nice to cook one too...but alas.

 

[NorthwestBBQ]

Oh and BTW NorthwestBBQ...good looking chicken box above!!

Thank you, sir.

 

[The Giggler]

Are they supposed to, no...Do I think a fair amount do, yes.

And at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, sure would be nice to see something other then a candy coated thigh now and then...

That seems to be the general consensus among both teams and judges. Guess it might be time to pony up and roll the dice.

Any cut cooked perfectly, presented well, that taste great, has a shot on any given day. Not only wings have done well for some, so have boneless skinless breasts.

 

[Badgeman]

I'm not sure how the judges feel, but holy smokes, those photos make me hungry!

 

[Sweet Breathe BBQ]

Best we scored with wings in KCBS chicken was a 4th at Harpoon last year, out of 42 teams. I don't have the exact pic of those but this is a similar looking box.

 

[bbq.tom]

Technically, there is no rule for that. It is not mentioned in the CD played (or rules read) during the judges meeting. Some reps will mention that cooks can turn in more than one cut/style in a single entry and recommend the judge sample each but that its not required. And there is no ruleon how to combine the relative merits of the different cuts/styles.

It would be nice for all parties if there was some clear KCBS guidelines/rules around this matter, but the KCBS BOD is the KCBS BOD and I don't expect any useful details in my lifetime. Sigh....

Edit: OBTW - The wings and wing/thigh combos get a nice thumbs-up from me.

I agree! No "rules" about sampling ALL types of meat in the box; however, I heard the "recommendation" during my CBJ training and heard it again when my wife took her CBJ training, as well as hearing it every once in a while when receiving instructions at competitions. I believe that a team wouldn't put the meat in the box if they didn't want it sampled for score.

I've only seen one occassion during my judging time where a team entered a wing and a thigh in the box (actually 6 wings and 6 thighs).

 

[Big Mike's BBQ]

Sorry I lost this thread and did not see any of the responses until today. I was not hiding or ducking the responses. I do not like to name names and give secrets, especially when some teams are holding cooking classes and charging money for them. I have never been to one of the classes so I cannot say for sure but I know one team that does lollipop wing drummies that does not teach it at their class or more people on this forum would know about turning in wings. I do not have any problems telling people what I do. I do not turn in wings I turn in skinless thighs and a boneless chicken breast. I do not compete much but have had a couple of scores in chicken and have also finshed about third from last with the same turn in. Am going to change just because I have had one bad showing, NO. Everyone talks about the luck of the draw as to what table you get, but when someone tries something new and it judges bad they want to dump it right away. Why?? Maybe it scored bad because it hit the wrong table. I know that it is not cheap to experiment with new things at contests also. I pacticed my chicken many times before entering a contest and I know it tasted and looked good before I did it. If something does not taste right or looks bad I ain't gonna turn it in. Plus while you are practicing get your friends to come taste it post pictures here for all to view. Practice something new at a contest but don't turn it in and give some samples out to your competition friends and see what they think. *steping down off soap box* thanks for listening.

Big Mike

 

[ammoore]

I fancy myself as making a pretty tasty wing also...and recently turned them in at back to back contests. They rec'd the exact same score at both contests right down to the last decimal.

Now for the kicker...got a comment card in the second contest where a judge actually recommended that I "should use a different cut of chicken"
How is that for bias? Hey it's just one judge but I'm just sayin