TOY Change for 2010

[EarlyBird]

What if the bonus points were detemined by the number of teams you beat at that contest. So if there were 43 teams and you came in GC you'd get the full 43. Reserve would get 42, Third 41and so on down. That way you don't get the full 43 for just showing up.

 

[LindaM]

Each argument or proposed change has its pro and con side.

For example, the statement that it's unfair for teams to not be rewarded for cooking large contests. From the stats above, we see that there were 6 contests with 100 or more entrants. That leaves a lot of the country out of the mix, where teams simply don't have access to those large contests without undue hardship in terms of travel, expense, time off. Is that fair?

The small variation under the proposed 50-point cap is of interest. Since the average number of teams per contest (excluding megashows) is 37, should the cutoff be closer to average? Would that make a bigger difference?

The number of contests done is also brought up as a limiting/enhancing factor. Sure, a team that cooks more has more bites at the apple. They also have more opportunities to have a bad cook, or hit a "bad table". I wonder if a larger number of contests done isn't simply an opportunity for statistics and consistency to level things out.

So what is the purpose of ToY, exactly? Is it to reward truly outstanding teams that put it on the line week after week, exposing this sport/hobby to many members of the public? Is it to dilute the concept down to the average joe who goes on three outings a year?

How would that encourage anyone to compete more? If we were to start the next season hot and pull down a couple of GCs, then by that logic we should sit on our butts for the rest of the season to preserve that average. I don't think that serves anybody well.

I think ToY is like test cooks: change one thing, see the result. Change another thing, see the result. If you start changing too many variables at once, how will you know what produced the result you want?

Thank you for your understanding. The BOD approved this based on my presentation. Along with that went, we will review additional changes for 2011 but want to make sure we have completed enough research so we don't jump into something the cooks will not be happy with. This change would make very little difference in the top 20, however, it will change some of the standings for teams finishing further down. The results of the poll is the driving force behind the change. Everyone had the opportunity to complete the poll but only 249 cooks elected to do so.

 

[Jacked UP BBQ]

We have it in NEBS and I guess there is a bit of an honor system about it. Does a non-rookie really want to win rookie team of the year?

Maybe if they saw the knife and trophy!!!!!!!!:-D

 

[Pickin' Porkers]

Interesting responses so far and I hope they keep coming. It DOES need to be explored from all angles instead of favoring the current system because no one wants to upset the apple cart.

What I have proposed includes the current system of counting the top ten contests and using the current points applied to each finish. Because someone cooks 35 contests versus another teams 12..... I do not view as a commitment but rather, someone that has sponsorship or personal wealth or business motives. The commitment level is certainly there with our paltry sum of 16 KCBS contests but certainly cannot afford to travel much further than we do without winning a few coins in the process which we have been able to do.

It was suggested that teams would stay home in order to keep a certain standing but remember, the more contest you do....the more chances you have to improve the top ten scores. While that may not seem too fair....there just is a point where you cannot erase all advantages but averaging sure makes it a more level playing field.

Fairness in determining WHO is the best for the year should be based solely on performance...nothing else...not how many times they cook...not how many times they get media coverage....and certainly not those that ring their own bell a lot. Performance can be measured many ways depending on one’s motives such as personal gain or an effort to really define performance milestones.

It is imperative for the sake of fairness to all teams that whatever changes are made they are made to rid ourselves of this notion and this fact.....that teams who cook many more contests have an advantage.

 

[HoDeDo]

We have it in NEBS and I guess there is a bit of an honor system about it. Does a non-rookie really want to win rookie team of the year?

Maybe if they saw the knife and trophy!!!!!!!!:-D

Rookie team of the year, hear I come!!! :twisted:

 

[drbbq]

There used to be a KCBS rookie of the year award. I don't know why it disappeared.

 

[Scottie]

Everyone had the opportunity to complete the poll but only 249 cooks elected to do so.

Linda, not that I am disagreeing, but this poll was buried in the KCBS website. The only way to find it was doing a search of the website. If you did not see it initially on the front page of the website, it was buried in the website. So is that really the way to get responses back? Is that really the way that KCBS wants to "judge" what the cooks feel on an issue? Give us cooks a little bit of credit and maybe say that the poll was not set-up in a proper manner and that is why you only got 249 responses. Not say that only "249 cooks elected to do so"...

Scottie Johnson
CBJ # 2714
KCBS # 7644

 

[drbbq]

Email notifications are for important stuff like selling wacky T-shirts. Here's a new suggestion for them: I'm spreading the sauce around like I'm Tiger!

 

[Diva]

Email notifications are for important stuff like selling wacky T-shirts. Here's a new suggestion for them: I'm spreading the sauce around like I'm Tiger!

No $hit

 

[Sledneck]

Remember... If money is involved, the scum starts to come out... That is my main reason for not having separatate divisions or recognize "rookies"...

then again. I don't think a guy that comes over from playing baseball in Japan for 15 years, should be eligible for winning rookie of the year either... In baseball of course...

I heard a rumor that the Japanese were taking over comp BBQ. All that flying knife stuff would be kind of cool during turn ins wouldnt it?:biggrin:

 

[Plowboy]

I heard a rumor that the Japanese were taking over comp BBQ. All that flying knife stuff would be kind of cool during turn ins wouldnt it?:biggrin:

I can just see Myron Mixon dicing pork table side during an MBN comp and tossing it to his guest judge to catch in his mouth. That's some high class flare.

 

[Plowboy]

Thank you for your understanding. The BOD approved this based on my presentation. Along with that went, we will review additional changes for 2011 but want to make sure we have completed enough research so we don't jump into something the cooks will not be happy with. This change would make very little difference in the top 20, however, it will change some of the standings for teams finishing further down. The results of the poll is the driving force behind the change. Everyone had the opportunity to complete the poll but only 249 cooks elected to do so.

Linda,

Are you REALLY saying that the change for TEAM OF THE YEAR was made for teams lower in the rankings? I don't really mean to be a snob here, but is it really important for the 2367th place team to be 2153rd? The top 5 are the only ones at the end of the season who really have a shot at Team of the Year. Why change the rules just to shuffle a few teams around in the top 10?

Is that how we are running KCBS now... through polls? The answer I would have liked was more like, "after some thoughtful statistical analysis based on several calculation models, we made the following decision."

I'll stand behind my original statement that this change is not significant. That is a mathematical fact.

Todd

 

[Plowboy]

I like the total points divided by the number of contests. There would need to be a minimum number of comps. This would show the most consistant cooking team. Anybody that has basic knowledge can cook 40 comps a year and have 10 good ones and end up in the top 25 with the current system. The top teams this year deserved it, but there would be a lot different outcomes if they through every comp you did into this. It would show who had their A-game on every comp.

The flip side is that it discourages teams from competing much beyond the minimum. If you can come out hot and hit your first 10 hard... sit back and coast the rest of the season. Cooking a contest could bring your average down. Why risk it? It totally changes the game. The leader would stay home until they get passed up and get forced to come out and compete.

 

[HoDeDo]

The flip side is that it discourages teams from competing much beyond the minimum. If you can come out hot and hit your first 10 hard... sit back and coast the rest of the season. Cooking a contest could bring your average down. Why risk it? It totally changes the game. The leader would stay home until they get passed up and get forced to come out and compete.

I have to agree... It penalizes you for a) cooking more (possibly diluting your average) b) trying new venues. If you are going to get dinged possibly, you may not go try cooking someplace new.

For example... NY loved my food, but Oklahoma not so much. I would LOVE to go back and cook in both places. Ponca City was a FUN contest this year.... but if we were using this avg. system, I would have never gone down there and risked hurting my average... I think we need to do things that promote more cooking, not less. I am not professing to know what the points system should be... I am merely saying that right now, I don't think it is in too bad shape, and the changes made to lower the bonus points do not really effect the top 10 - and that is the only group of folks that are actively doing anything with TOY. I would say, even if you are 16th, you are not going to jet across the country to cook one more event to move into 11th. right?

Honestly, I don't care how many events you have cooked in a year .... 10 or 30... winning 5 of those a year (or 8, etc) is a feat. Having been the king of RGC for a couple years, and having lots of hit or miss contests for years... I take my hat off to Rod, Darren, Steve, Kelly, Rob, you name it.... anyone that can win, consistently and do well all over... that is something special. And many of these guys, do it year over year. That is what I am striving for. In 5 years, I want to still be able to win a comp or two. I want to see, who is cook of the decade? :icon_cool 2000-2010.

 

[Diva]

What this new ruling has "accomplished": screwing organizers of possibly getting more teams. If contests have been sitting around 50 teams, whats the advantage of going to their contest now? You're not going to get more points out of the deal.

To have this decision made based on a poll that 200 some odd people took is RIDICULOUS!

 

[Plowboy]

I take my hat off to Rod, Darren, Steve, Kelly, Rob, you name it.... anyone that can win, consistently and do well all over... that is something special.

Thanks, buddy.

 

[Plowboy]

housekeeping.

"I just can't quit you!"

 

[Plowboy]

What this new ruling has "accomplished": screwing organizers of possibly getting more teams. If contests have been sitting around 50 teams, whats the advantage of going to their contest now? You're not going to get more points out of the deal.

To have this decision made based on a poll that 200 some odd people took is RIDICULOUS!

How do you know that they are odd?

 

[Alexa RnQ]

How do you know that they are odd?

Pssst. Todd. Take a look around you.

 

[Diva]

How do you know that they are odd?

Helloooooo :roll: