Stick burner quality - in a cabinet style?? Ideas and questions

[Waxtell]

In my recent quest for a cooker that turns out as close to the quality of Q offered by the classic stick burning offset as possible while also enjoying the benefit of a cabinet I have some thoughts I’d like everyone’s input on for any part of this post you feel - as this group is a true wealth of info.

In my research I’ve come to the conclusion (correct me if I’m wrong) that the flavor an offset provides is significantly due to the full combustion fire (not smoldering) and increased airflow. I’ve owned a Kamado Joe and LSG PeeWee and both have turned out excellent Q so I’m not knocking the smoldering fire but I’m in the market for a new cooker and it’s really got me thinking. I didn’t like that you can’t add wood to the Kamado Joe after starting the cook and I didn’t like that every time you open the cook chamber on the PeeWee you stoke the fire. I also needed much more capacity. I’ve never used a Gravity Fed before but Right now I’m thinking about an Assassin or Souther Q GF. I also found out a yr ago that after Stumps sold his company he and some others (mostly others under his direction and design) are building smokers again under the name Stumpsville. They will fabricate a gravity fed how you want it last I heard so that’s a strong possibility for me. Plus I’m in Florida and Georgia is not that far. Another possibility is LSG cabinet offset w a fire basket.

Initially I thought to simply put a fire basket in the fire box of a Shirley LSG cabinet or some other non insulated offset cabinet and then hook a guru up to it somehow, but I wasn’t sure if the smoldering fire would put out enough heat for that non insulated heavy duty cooker but again, what about airflow and full combustion right?

My next thought is to use the firebox of a GF as a stick burning firebox (Is the fire box of a souther Q or Assassin big enough for this? Also maybe I can get Stumpsville to build one big enough for small splits) for the first couple hours and then to start up the gravity fed portion with wood chunks mixed in the chute. This second portion of the cook would be a smoldering fire so not the full combustion fire however, interestingly, I have seen posts where some say the wood chunks are burning with flames in the firebox of the GF’s which I don’t understand because the firebox door would be closed and air very limited because of the guru or whatever device is being used. But if true all the better right? (Any GF owners here that can attest to that as well?)

I’m hoping this would produce the best of best of both worlds with 2-3 hrs of stick burning and then the convenience of GF.

Please let me know your thoughts on these ideas.

Couple other questions:

I am also understanding that an insulated cook chamber will require a much smaller fire than a non insulated one such as a Shirley. Will a stick burning fire put off too much heat for an insulated cook chamber?Would a smoldering fire basket put out too little heat for a Shirley?
Also I know Shirley has a damper between the fire box and the cook chamber. Can someone tell me what purpose that serves? I’m guessing to control heat into cook chamber.

This is all probably too many questions but if you feel inclined to put in your .02 on any part of it I’d greatly appreciate it.

 

[WeberWho]

I place wood chunks under the charcoal grate for the first 2-3 hours in my GF. The sparks from the charcoal above ignite the chunks where they can fully ignite. I have my GF paired with my Fame Boss 500 controller. (I don't add chunks into the chute with my charcoal. I've read that majority of your smoke profile is induced the first few hours of your cook. Your meat can only absorb so much smoke beyond that. I've never felt that I needed up add chunks into the chute after 2-3 hours. Just my personal opinion though.)

 

[SmittyJonz]

Small chunks mixed in chute with charcoal - I only use briquettes - big chunks in firebox. Assassin, Southern Q or maybe the Stumpsville you mentioned.I have an Old Country GF. Gravity Fed, Drum Smoker, Cabinet smoker - the Hotter you cook the more wood you can burn and less smoldering. I run Hot n Fast around 300* - sometimes 325*. I've had many smokers - bullet, drum , cabinet, offset, vertical direct, vertical offsets , even a file cabinet smoker. I can can get close to a stick burner taste with any of them but I use 20-30 wood chunks a cook........... I even add a pan of burning charcoal n wood chunks to my pellet pooper............

 

[PGarSD]

It sounds like you're shooting for the taste of a full stickburner with the convenience of a gravity fed smoker. While I think a GF can get close enough to a stickburner (offset) that it probably doesn't matter to most people, the taste of the stickburner comes, as you pointed out, from the byproducts of clean burning wood.

You'll get closer to that taste by burning more wood cleanly in a GF (question; is it possible to maintain a clean burning wood fire in a GF while maintaining temp?). But, you're still burning less wood for the entire cook compared to an offset so you'll have less wood burning "byproducts" hitting the meat...

Insulated cooker: I think any insulated cooker (offset or GF) would have a similar issue as it would hold heat so well that less wood would be needed = less wood burned = less byproducts to flavor the meat.

All that said; I've read in multiple places that meat doesn't absorb smoke flavor after the meat temp goes above 140F. No idea if that's true but, if it is and you can maintain a clean burning wood fire until the meat gets to 140, the heat source used to finish the cook after that might not matter much (charcoal, oven, hot car in Arizona....).

Of course, there's more variables, like wood choice. Using a stronger flavor wood (mesquite as an extreme example) would allow you to use less time/wood to achieve your desired smoke flavor profile so you could switch to a different heat source earlier (at a lower meat temp).

It sounds like some fun experimentation is in order

 

[charcoalwilly]

You need to borrow my Tall Boy "pellet-assist" smoker! I went through same thought process years ago. Wanted more clean burning wood flavor but with convenience factor. I need to do a post on Tall Boy some day.

 

[bschoen]

All I have to add is I bought an Assassin 48 grill/smoker a few years back and Jeff was a great guy to do business with. I am only about 70 minutes from Macon so I made my order in person. On fabrication time Jeff under promised and over delivered, I picked it up 10 days earlier than expected. Excellent quality. If I wanted a gravity feed, and I might, Assassin would be my goto.

Sad that no one has recommended that you build a uds. Sigh.

 

[SmoothBoarBBQ]

Ironside Smokers makes exactly what you're looking for : an insulated cabinet smoker, but designed from the ground up to be an offset smoker. Sadly I don't think they're in business anymore, but you might be able to find a used one online.

Aternatively, as suggested by @bschoen , you could build a UDS with a door so you can use it as both a stickburner or a normal UDS. I do this with my Cotton Gin Harverster model...I'll leave the door open and add a small wood split every 10-15 minutes for about 2-3 hours. This gives me a very good smoke flavor, and then I'll add maybe 10Lbs of charcoal, and finish out the cook using the UDS as a charcoal cooker. It might be worth a look to see if it's for you.

The Harvester - Premium BBQ Smoker

The Harvester is our premium beast of a smoker. Imagine being the talk of the neighborhood or competition sight. This model touts a dual access door on the front where you can add your very own custom logo panel. With this access door it allows you to add fuel to your charcoal basket as well as...

shopcottonginsmokers.com

 

[SmoothBoarBBQ]

You need to borrow my Tall Boy "pellet-assist" smoker! I went through same thought process years ago. Wanted more clean burning wood flavor but with convenience factor. I need to do a post on Tall Boy some day.

View attachment 222780

Please do as this appears to be a very interesting cooker.

 

[OSD]

All that said; I've read in multiple places that meat doesn't absorb smoke flavor after the meat temp goes above 140F. No idea if that's true but, if it is and you can maintain a clean burning wood fire until the meat gets to 140, the heat source used to finish the cook after that might not matter much (charcoal, oven, hot car in Arizona....).

This is wrong. The smoke ring stops forming at 140° because it's a chemical reaction. The meat continues to absorb smoke as long as it's in the smoke environment of the cooking chamber.

I cooked on an insulated Spicewine for years and loved the way it cooked.

 

[lastmajordude]

My drum “Hunsaker’ COOKS just like advertised. BUT, with age and neck “c5-c7” problems trying to lift and clean and refill the heavy basket is almost unbearable for consistent usage. I will also say nothing beat my old used Jambo stick burner I sold. I think my dream setup is a pitts spits or assassin 48 for a grill. For a smoker, I have limited room so a boathouse, or shirley, or 1975, or outlaw short trad flow offset. I wanted a offset vertical but don’t think they do what i want. I like the idea of a gravity flow but I just don’’t want to have to depend on an electrical fan setup. Big rubber wheels and single door is a must for an offset. Don’t know why I’m so long winded......just old and meandering I guess.......JMHO.

 

[charcoalwilly]

In my recent quest for a cooker that turns out as close to the quality of Q offered by the classic stick burning offset as possible while also enjoying the benefit of a cabinet I have some thoughts I’d like everyone’s input on for any part of this post you feel - as this group is a true wealth of info.

Did you consider a direct heat cooker yet? There are a lot of good ones now. Here is a recent thread on them. I built one years ago and did exactly what you are describing burning both charcoal and small wood splits. The downside is you won't have the convenience of a GF cooker.

Anyone with experience with a LSG El Patron

I am replacing my Masterbuilt 1050 Gravity Smoker this year. Does anyone have any experience with the LSG El Patron. This grill looks like it can do a lot. Plus I like the fact I can temp control this smoker with a fireboard and the pizza oven is a bonus. Any feedback would be greatly...

www.bbq-brethren.com

 

[Markov]

Ironside Smokers makes exactly what you're looking for : an insulated cabinet smoker, but designed from the ground up to be an offset smoker. Sadly I don't think they're in business anymore, but you might be able to find a used one online.

The Harvester - Premium BBQ Smoker

The Harvester is our premium beast of a smoker. Imagine being the talk of the neighborhood or competition sight. This model touts a dual access door on the front where you can add your very own custom logo panel. With this access door it allows you to add fuel to your charcoal basket as well as...

shopcottonginsmokers.com

I happen to be selling mine. I am way up North but here is the listing Ironside CDR Smoker - general for sale - by owner - craigslist

 

[JVM59]

I currently own a LSG Mini Cabinet. Several years ago as an experiment, I built a small fire using only about 15-20 briquettes. Once they were glowing I added several chunks of Hickory. From that point on I used only wood chunks to maintain the fire.
Because the fire was small, I was able to have the air intake ball valve wide open along with the damper. So really I was using the size of the fire to determine the cabinet temp. and only burning wood chunks. It worked really well and the food
tasted excellent. But the point of purchasing a cabinet smoker in the first place was to not have to constantly mess with a fire and I'm pleased with the results when used as designed. Good luck!