Q: Judging and bite-through skin

[TTNuge]

Show me where it says bite through skin..... it says "taste the skin".

[FONT=&quot]Chicken may be presented with or without the skin. It may also be presented with a combination of dark and white meat or all of one or the other. Properly smoked chicken will be moist and have a nice texture and any juice present should be clear. Smoked chicken has a tendency to produce a red coloring around the bone areas, especially in the thigh and leg meat. To some it gives the impression that it was undercooked. Always check the juices. If they are clear, chicken is properly cooked. There may be a pink appearance to the breast meat if it has[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]been cooked for some time; however, some cooks prepare their chicken in such a way that the breast meat will remain white. Because of this do not judge chicken on its color. If presented with skin on you should at least taste the skin.

Sounds like you want judges to compare entries.
[/FONT]

The skin of the chicken is part of the meat, it's not garnish that shouldn't be judged, it's the actual meat being judged and if it wasn't you wouldn't be asked to taste it. If it's in the box and it's part of the meat it should be judged based on appearance, taste and tenderness. If you can honestly say to yourself that a rubbery piece of chicken skin rates high on the tenderness scale then that's a scary thought.

 

[DawgPhan]

Show me where it says bite through skin..... it says "taste the skin".

[FONT=&quot]Chicken may be presented with or without the skin. It may also be presented with a combination of dark and white meat or all of one or the other. Properly smoked chicken will be moist and have a nice texture and any juice present should be clear. Smoked chicken has a tendency to produce a red coloring around the bone areas, especially in the thigh and leg meat. To some it gives the impression that it was undercooked. Always check the juices. If they are clear, chicken is properly cooked. There may be a pink appearance to the breast meat if it has[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]been cooked for some time; however, some cooks prepare their chicken in such a way that the breast meat will remain white. Because of this do not judge chicken on its color. If presented with skin on you should at least taste the skin.

Sounds like you want judges to compare entries.
[/FONT]

I just want you, and everyone other judge, to fairly judge what was turned in. Not disregard things that are not done properly because you think it is too difficult to nail or shouldnt be judged.

If a piece of chicken has tough leathery skin, that piece of chicken doesnt deserve a 9 in tenderness.

 

[Jason TQ]

I just want you, and everyone other judge, to fairly judge what was turned in. Not disregard things that are not done properly because you think it is too difficult to nail or shouldnt be judged.

If a piece of chicken has tough leathery skin, that piece of chicken doesnt deserve a 9 in tenderness.

I read what EatonHoggBBQ said a different way. It sounds like he judges the skin, but just doesn't matter if the skin is bite through. So (and I'm just speculating here) if for example the skin was charred like heck and tasted like an ashtray and was tough or had a texture of say mucus slime them perhaps he would score lower. To me all I read is "I don't judge bite through".

He probably needs to clarify before any more assumptions are made on exactly how he judges. I also agree that everything put in the box should be judged, but again we need some clarification here.

 

[bbq.tom]

As I take a bite of the chicken (biting through the skin and meat (if skin is on the piece), I proceed to chew the bite and score for tenderness - not only the meat in that bite, but the skin that came with the bite as well. USUALLY, if the skin has "poor" bite-through it will also be chewy in my mouth along with the meat of the chicken - resulting in a lower score than a bite that had "good" bite-through and was NOT chewy in my mouth along with the meat of the chicken.

As I take my second bite from the opposite side of the piece, the skin "normally" comes off in my mouth (or against my chin); however, I am usually looking for the flavor of the second bite and I don't reduce the score based on the skin coming off.

Skin on the chicken is part of the chicken and should be judged accordingly.

 

[mobow]

I agree with BBQ.tom and taking the discussion even further I would would say that even if the first bite causes the skin to come off and slap me in the chin I will bite a piece of the skin off and judge the tenderness of the chew. Sometimes the skin may come off because of the way I bit it or I did not have a good hold of it or it just was not adhering to the meat for whatever reasons. Bottom line if it chews well it scores well. If it chews poorly it scores poorly. keith

 

[EatonHoggBBQ]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......................

Anyone find where it says bite through skin is a KCBS standard yet??? :bored:

 

[Rich Parker]

you wonder why most cooks dont think too highly of judges...attitudes of I am going to do it my way, rules be damned, is a good start.

You arent a cook's judge...you are a you judge. cooks want everything in the box judged by each judge. Not judges picking and choosing what they want to judge.

Speak for yourself because this cook doesn't want garnish taken in to considering when scoring. The rules don't say anything about chicken having bite through skin.

 

[southernstyle]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......................

Anyone find where it says bite through skin is a KCBS standard yet??? :bored:

Your right. It's not a standard but it is part of the bite and should and will affect the flavor and texture of the bite

 

[DawgPhan]

Speak for yourself because this cook doesn't want garnish taken in to considering when scoring. The rules don't say anything about chicken having bite through skin.

and yet the rules are that entries with improper garnish get a 1 for appearance, so it has to be looked at. If garnish covers up the meat, I think that it would, rightfully, be judged down.

The rules dont say anything about chicken skin. They dont say anything about pork rib membranes either, but if you turn in a rib without the membrane removed I would expect that judges would score it lower, not ignore that it is there.

 

[Rich Parker]

and yet the rules are that entries with improper garnish get a 1 for appearance, so it has to be looked at. If garnish covers up the meat, I think that it would, rightfully, be judged down.

The rules dont say anything about chicken skin. They dont say anything about pork rib membranes either, but if you turn in a rib without the membrane removed I would expect that judges would score it lower, not ignore that it is there.

Improper garnish is a rule violation and shouldn't be scored anything other than it is legal.

I have never heard of a cbj instructor informing people to judge down on skin. In fact, our instructor informed us bite through skin was not a rule or requirement.

 

[DawgPhan]

Improper garnish is a rule violation and shouldn't be scored anything other than it is legal.

I have never heard of a cbj instructor informing people to judge down on skin. In fact, our instructor informed us bite through skin was not a rule or requirement.

so if someone put 6 awesome looking ribs in a box and piled parsley on top of them, you would expect that box to get the same score as a perfect putting green parsley box with those same 6 awesome ribs?

I just dont understand why cooks would be given a pass on chicken if they screw it up the skin, but not on the other meats.

 

[mobow]

I believe we all agree that bite through is not a requirement of KCBS.
I believe we all agree that skin should be tasted if it is presented.
I think we all agree that if the skin taste bad or has a bad texture it will be scored according.
Am I wrong?
keith

 

[rweller]

I believe we all agree that bite through is not a requirement of KCBS.
I believe we all agree that skin should be tasted if it is presented.
I think we all agree that if the skin taste bad or has a bad texture it will be scored according.
Am I wrong?
keith

I agree with you Keith. You are not wrong on this.

 

[Bentley]

Please Lord, let my box of chicken hit the table where many of these judges who dont care that the chicken skin is not bite through are sitting this Saturday in Apex...Amen...

 

[hamiltont]

I believe we all agree that bite through is not a requirement of KCBS.
I believe we all agree that skin should be tasted if it is presented.
I think we all agree that if the skin taste bad or has a bad texture it will be scored according.
Am I wrong?
keith

That's how I see it, and how I score it. Cheers!!!

 

[arrowhead]

That's how I see it, and how I score it. Cheers!!!

hey hamiltont, are you going to council bluffs at the end of july to judge some tough chicken skin?

off topic, but what does a guy have to do to judge at the meade, wine and beer contest?

 

[hamiltont]

hey hamiltont, are you going to council bluffs at the end of july to judge some tough chicken skin?

off topic, but what does a guy have to do to judge at the mead, wine and beer contest?

Yep, I'll be judging tough skin, not. :wink:

To judge Beer & Mead you should be BJCP Certified. THAT is not easy. Here's a link to the Beer Judge Certification Program Exam Center as a reference. http://www.bjcp.org/examcenter.php

And now back to our regularly scheduled program...

 

[Vince RnQ]

Here's a curveball question: If a team were to decide to turn in skinless chicken does anyone think that would be scored as evenly and fairly as those who turned in chicken with skin, regardless of whether the skin was bite through?

I know the stock answer is to "judge it as presented" but over 100 contests of experience has taught me that the stock answer is only likely to be used by most, not all, of the judging pool. Heck, if judging as presented was always followed, people would turn in legs, wings & breasts a lot more often.

The simple fact is that the skin is part of the chicken and the tenderness score should reflect if it was tough or tender. The taste score should reflect if the flavor was good. Not a judge is not going to score down for tough skin then don't score down for any part of the chicken that is tough.

 

[Bourbon Barrel BBQ]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......................

Anyone find where it says bite through skin is a KCBS standard yet??? :bored:

Where does it say skin should not be judged on tenderness?

 

[boogiesnap]

Where does it say skin should not be judged on tenderness?

the skin may be tender but not bite through while on the meat.