Professional judging, or lack thereof

I am by no means a veteran but I can tell you this simple fact:

You/we were at a K-C-B-S sanctioned BBQ event. Kansas City-style BBQ is sweet and smoky. Plain and simple.

While the judges are not necessarily KC natives, they are generally aware of the flavor profile and stick to it. They also talk amongst themselves and reinforce it with newer judges.

These events are run by the KCBS with judges that (for the most part) are trained BY the KCBS, eating food cooked and presented by KCBS members who know what this means.

There are 100s of styles of BBQ across the US and the world (read Raichlen's books and you'll see). These events are focused on ONE style and we need to cook to that style in order to do well.

Cheers.

Don't speak for me. I'm a third year KCBS certified judge and how I judge is not the same as everbody else. I have my own mind and my own thoughts on BBQ. I judge based on what KCBS wants execpt I have my own taste buds and palate. I also cook BBQ and it's not uncommon to be judging BBQ that does not match up to mine, but that has no bearing on what I'm judging on any given Saturday.
You cooks do your best and I give you my best every time I sit down in the tent. Just don't lump us all in the same catagory.
ModelMaker
 
Do I need buy that hat for you ?:mrgreen:

Probably... As I am still laughing... Where is the love and respect? I mean, I always think of you guys within the first 10 NEBS teams that I can think of...


Sorry, I better quit before Big Barry gets mad at me for having such a laugh.... :icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy
 
You've pointed out why in your post... Entries in a NEBS grilling contest and in a non-KCBS contest (making that assumption since I can't imagine comp teams showing up to judge rather than compete in a KCBS event)... are both going to be very very different than what's turned in for the 4 categories in a KCBS event...
 
Probably... As I am still laughing... Where is the love and respect? I mean, I always think of you guys within the first 10 NEBS teams that I can think of...


Sorry, I better quit before Big Barry gets mad at me for having such a laugh.... :icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy


He has one tough weekend and wow... off the radar.

I mean at least in the top 12 I'd mention ISS!...
 
You've pointed out why in your post... Entries in a NEBS grilling contest and in a non-KCBS contest (making that assumption since I can't imagine comp teams showing up to judge rather than compete in a KCBS event)... are both going to be very very different than what's turned in for the 4 categories in a KCBS event...


then how come most if not all the judges that did nebs did the kcbs?
 
like stated before.. if bbq is sweet baby rays type sauces and such then why at my first backyard bbq comp did i win 1st place ribs with a soy wasabi glaze, 1st place chicken with a plum glaze, and i got grand champion.. this was all judged by competition teams...

I was once told by a very wise man, "If what you did yesterday still looks big today, you haven't done much today." OK, maybe I wasn't directly told that, but you get my drift. Stop dwelling on how you did in your first backyard...it don't mean CHIT. Either adjust your cooking for KCBS standards, cook in events sanctioned by another body, or take up catering, because it sounds like you are looking for people to kiss your arse about your food, not judge it against a standard, and that's what catering is all about...people going ga-ga over your food.
 
Probably... As I am still laughing... Where is the love and respect? I mean, I always think of you guys within the first 10 NEBS teams that I can think of...


Sorry, I better quit before Big Barry gets mad at me for having such a laugh.... :icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy
I think it is even funnier that I made the list:eek:
 
[quote/]
like stated before.. if bbq is sweet baby rays type sauces and such then why at my first backyard bbq comp did i win 1st place ribs with a soy wasabi glaze, 1st place chicken with a plum glaze, and i got grand champion.. this was all judged by competition teams...

so explain that one...[/quote]

It's easy - NEBS is grilling. Open grilling. You can turn in anything and hope it "wows" the judges. They welcome and even might expect "interesting" flavors and meat selections. It's not the same with KCBS.

We got 5th place grilling for both fruit and wings in previous contests (woo:tongue:). We used a bourbon chipotle maple glaze on pineapple and an even spicier profile for our wings. They tasted great and I was glad we placed but I would never do that in a KCBS event.
 
This Has Nothing To Do With My Turn Ins Or My Food... It Is What It Is.. You Guys Miss The Point And It Is All About The Judges... There Is No Such Thing As Standard Bbq... If There Is I Guess I Am Missing Something.. Thats Why Everything Is Different..
 
This Has Nothing To Do With My Turn Ins Or My Food... It Is What It Is.. You Guys Miss The Point And It Is All About The Judges... There Is No Such Thing As Standard Bbq... If There Is I Guess I Am Missing Something.. Thats Why Everything Is Different..

So you did well in a backyard and now you can't score well in a comp? You must be right...it's all the judges fault and has nothing to do with your turn ins or your food.
 
.. i think they might just know what the judges want..

In any competition I can think of were there is judging a competitor would certainly strive for this. Anytime The Kapn and I are talking about what we are doing or want to do it is with the backdrop of what the judges want... NOT what we want.
 
So you did well in a backyard and now you can't score well in a comp? You must be right...it's all the judges fault and has nothing to do with your turn ins or your food.


We have done out share of comps and have gotten to walk at every single one... so i guess our good i pretty damn good... i am just trying to understand what the judges want...

we got plenty of hardware to prove it.. we took home a lot of stuff trust me..

ONCE AGAIN.. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY FOOD OR TURN INS.. HAS TO DO WITH THE INCONSITENT JUDGES NOT FOR ME BUT FOR ALL.. bringing it up thinking that something needs to or has to be done.. if you feel different thats fine.. but this is by no means towards just me so take a deep breathe!!
 
then how come most if not all the judges that did nebs did the kcbs?

I don't know how you'd know that the judges were the same... but it doesn't really matter. Let's say they were.

Actually lets use the apple category... since we know those are the exact same judges. The apples could very well have been a NEBS grilling category. Judges are looking for creativity, a huge variety of tastes, textures... and are really looking for people to think outside the box on this one. This applies to all NEBS grilling events... do a search on here and you'll find some really incredible looking things.

KCBS contests are looking for BBQ... Memphis/Kansas City/North Carolina/Texas/alabama or a version of these American BBQ staples... KCBS contest isn't looking for Japanese inspired fusion food, or italian breaded chicken... or even buffalo wing sauce...

The grilling event is the time for that interesting twist... regadless of your personal tastes and thoughts on what these should really be about... you're going to go broke and need blood pressure medication if you can't sort of accept KCBS contests for what they are.
 
Probably... As I am still laughing... Where is the love and respect? I mean, I always think of you guys within the first 10 NEBS teams that I can think of...


Sorry, I better quit before Big Barry gets mad at me for having such a laugh.... :icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy:icon_shy


Did you type that left handed?:icon_shy
 
it is totally subjective and the same teams do win over and over and show good in most events.. but why? is their food that good? I dont know if i believe that.. i think they might just know what the judges want..



Yeah.. i think u got it..

It IS THAT GOOD... AND they are not going to wreck the judges taste buds with wasabi.. or licorice, or to much of or to prevelant of anything.

the products of the top teams like Cool smoke, I-que, I smell smoke, Mike Davis, Scotty J, PelletEnvy, JOS, etc .. is so good that no matter where they go, they win or place. They have honed their products to the point where based on the judging criteria of appearance/tenderness/taste, they will score 7-8-9s consistently. You do NOT have to place in the top to win, but u have to have consistency and a product that will not bottom out(try wasabi, just once and you'll see what I mean).

On a side note regarding the concept of trained palletes from CIA..
Case in point.. At guitarbeque one year, we had a new team next to us.. The pitmaster was a professional chef, 20 years restaurant and catering and CIA grad.. he was convinced that his homemade sauce was the best thing since sliced pineapples. He called me over to taste it as it was boiling away on the stove. He had beef and pork bones in there and a load of other colorful things. Plan was, once it reduced he puts in in the blender and makes sauce. Ok.. fine.. i tasted it and it was great..
for a wedding
maybe a graduation
or a confirmation party/bah-mitzvah
but NOT BBQ..
It was loaded with black bean/or anise/or 5 spice... something along that licorice profile. I told him its good stuff, but its not BBQ, and the judges will trash him.. he declined my advice and came in DAL. Was the food bad..NO.. was it BBQ NO.. there ARE expectations in this sport, not rocket science

IMO, fulfilling those expectations is part of the challenge and yeah, they vary. Having the ability to produce a consistently good product, regardless of the judges palette and preferences its what makes those top teams stand out and what we are trying to archive. Regardless of all the containers on my prep table labeled secret stuff and super secret stuff, there is no secret ingredient, no secret technique.. its all consistency and attention to detail and a little bit of luck.

Blaming the judges is just a cop out.. i did it once(happened to be ribfest 05 or 06) and got lectured by the good doctor.. he made me realize it wasn't the judges.. they liked my stuff, i got 7-8-9.... and some 5-6... what it was was that someone else got more 9's more 8's and more 7's and less 5-6s. My stars were not in alignment that day. Its that simple.. Your not competing alone, your competing against other pitmasters and without being compared to them, you have to beat them... and it has to be done blindly.. so its not the judges that make you loose.. its the teams around you.. (<-- I Blame I Smell Smoke and I-Que. Its ALL their fault)

Its a sport, its supposed to be fun and when it stops being fun, and you start to over analyze, its time to take a break.
 
As a judge I would prefer to get away from honey ribs and get a rib with no sauce so I can taste only meat

However I judge to the best of my ability and what I like is different than others

Last week I tasted a chicken turn in with a spicier sauce. Got 9's from me. The woman next to me gave it a 6 as it was too much for her. That's why people keep it sweet and plain

Just my perspective
 
The judges had another bad day lol....
 

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