Please help with Brisket

[irishboy209]

I've tried a few briskets and they always seem to come out a little dry and more on the crumbly side not that milked in your mouth butter not tough though.

This last cook has really had me confused and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong or what not but I got a 8 lb brisket from Costco which was a prime.
I salt cured it for about 8 hours then I threw it on the pit with pepper and garlic and cooked at 225f until The bark was set maybe around 4 or 5 hrs I wrapped it in butcher paper and let it cook until the thermometer told me I was getting in the 190 ballpark I then started probing to find tenderness. The point was way ahead of the flat always probing around 200° when the flat was about 180 but anyways the middle or thickest area of the flat became probe tender maybe around 200°, but the first 6-in of the flat was very tough so I kept cooking it until it probed soft after the rest the meat was dry

My main question is are you looking for a complete 100% probe tenderness in the flat or is it only the thickest part or the middle? Every time I have dryer crumbly brisket Even if I've used foil not terrible but definitely overcooked maybe I'm probing in the wrong place and I should only go off of the middle of the flat and don't worry about the first portion of the flat?

I'm about to give up on brisket but it really really bugs me not to turn out a good one any advice would be amazing please

 

[SmokeRingsMatter]

The flat should never take longer then the point. If you are trying to probe tender the flat and its taking longer then the point, then you over cooked it and its dry and getting towards beef jerky. I never let my flats go above 170F. At that temp i cut the flat from the point and wrap the flat with some liquids and either finish in my el cheapo electric smoker at 170F untill the Point is done.

 

[SMOKE FREAK]

A couple of decades ago when brisket was kicking my @ss I switched to chuck roast. when I felt like I had that under control I switched to pork butts. Then I went back to brisket. No problem.

 

[sudsandswine]

The point will pretty much always "probe tender" before the flat will due to the higher fat content...it can "probe tender" and feel right without actually being rendered and fully cooked. I wait until it probes right in the thickest part of the flat. If the flat is good, so is the rest of the brisket...never had to separate and cook each muscle different lengths of time. It sounds like you overcooked the flat - dry and tough = undercooked, dry and fall apart = overcooked.

Are you letting the brisket rest when you pull it after probing tender? If so, how?

 

[PatAttack]

the point will pretty much always "probe tender" before the flat will due to the higher fat content...it can "probe tender" and feel right without actually being rendered and fully cooked. I wait until it probes right in the thickest part of the flat. If the flat is good, so is the rest of the brisket...never had to separate and cook each muscle different lengths of time. It sounds like you overcooked the flat - dry and tough = undercooked, dry and fall apart = overcooked.

Are you letting the brisket rest when you pull it after probing tender? If so, how?

^^^this!

 

[drunkenmeatfist]

The point will pretty much always "probe tender" before the flat will due to the higher fat content...it can "probe tender" and feel right without actually being rendered and fully cooked. I wait until it probes right in the thickest part of the flat. If the flat is good, so is the rest of the brisket...never had to separate and cook each muscle different lengths of time. It sounds like you overcooked the flat - dry and tough = undercooked, dry and fall apart = overcooked.

Are you letting the brisket rest when you pull it after probing tender? If so, how?

The flat should never take longer then the point.

It seems like there might be some disagreement on this subject.

 

[SmokeRingsMatter]

It seems like there might be some disagreement on this subject.

Well to be fair, a flat should take longer if cooked at a lower temp then the point:mrgreen:
On what planet does a leaner cut take longer to cook?

 

[sudsandswine]

I've probably cooked a couple hundred briskets and never once have I pulled a brisket and the flat be done yet the point is not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If you've ever put a probe in both the flat and the point, you'd see that the point rises in temp much quicker, into the zone where it's rendering the fat, whereas the flat lags behind just as OP saw.

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

Well to be fair, a flat should take longer if cooked at a lower temp then the point:mrgreen:
On what planet does a leaner cut take longer to cook?

Trust me, you don't want to live on my planet, it can get complicated.:shocked:

While far from an expert, I tend to have the results Sudsandswine does, oh well!

 

[irishboy209]

I don't really cook a lot of briskets but I have definitely checked the few I have done and the point is always done faster than the flat which makes sense because of the internal fat heats up hotter.

I think the problem was the thickest part of the flat was probing tender but the thinner part was not and I was probably confusing toughness with tenderness and trying to wait for no resistance on the thunder part towards the front of the flat which probably led me to overcook it?

So when you're testing for tenderness you're mainly only testing the thicker part of the flat and not worrying about the thinner parts of the flat?
This brisket had me confused because the thinner part of the flat seem to be a lower internal temperature than the middle thicker area? I've never really seen this and I didn't know what to do but from what I'm understanding just go off of the middle once that is soft hopefully the rest will fall in place on the flat?

as far as resting I kept this one just wrapped in butcher paper on the counter for about an hour to an hour and a half It was already pretty late and I couldn't stay up any longer.

225 definitely wasn't the business for me that little brisket took 14 hours I believe it was around 7 lb

 

[sudsandswine]

My thought was maybe your hold was causing it to continue cooking and overshooting your doneness, I doubt that's the case since you just rested on the counter. 7lb brisket is pretty small, how thin was the thin part of the flat?

 

[irishboy209]

My thought was maybe your hold was causing it to continue cooking and overshooting your doneness, I doubt that's the case since you just rested on the counter. 7lb brisket is pretty small, how thin was the thin part of the flat?

It actually wasn't thin at all It was a pretty good thickness all the way around very good bend It was on the shorter side but not a bad brisket I've had this issue on much bigger Packers also. The overshooting I have had that problem my very first brisket that I did in tin foil I didn't know to Vent it and threw it straight in the cooler and I could tell that one was very good but it overcooked a little bit still probably my better brisket.

From reading your post I think I should just only probe in the middle and not worry about stabbing the whole brisket all over for tenderness? I've seen a couple of videos where someone will stab it in the thickest part of the flat and kind of check multiple angles in that one hole.

 

[irishboy209]

Well to be fair, a flat should take longer if cooked at a lower temp then the point:mrgreen:
On what planet does a leaner cut take longer to cook?

Maybe the flat is more towards the heat source and that's why it's cooking faster?

 

[sudsandswine]

I'll probe other parts of the flat just to see if the thickest part isn't where I want it, but I let the thickest part dictate when I pull it.

 

[irishboy209]

I'll probe other parts of the flat just to see if the thickest part isn't where I want it, but I let the thickest part dictate when I pull it.

Thank you very much for that information.

I have two questions if you don't mind
Have you ever experienced that issue where the middle of the thickest of the flat was ready but the thinner areas was not and a much lower temperature internally?

I was looking at your beautiful Instagram cooks when you use your pellet grill are you usually going fat side down or fast side up I imagine fat side down is a safer bet because of the bottom heat?

 

[sudsandswine]

Not that I recall, I'm not sure I could explain why the outer edges of the flat would be lower in temp than the middle thicker part.

When I cook on the Mak I always keep it under 245* and have found that I don't have issues with the radiant heat off the deflector at those temps. I tried cooking at a higher temp...275* I think...and did have some charring issues on the bottom of the brisket. So I just cook at lower temps now because aside from taking longer, it doesn't really require any extra effort on my part. If I were going to cook above 245* I would either put the shelf in and cook on the top rack or I would put the brisket in a foil pan with a wire rack inside of it to give it a little extra buffer from the heat.

There's been times where the rest of the brisket was probing well, it had "the jiggle", but that thickest part of the flat still had more resistance than I wanted, and I'd just go ahead and pull it and let the carryover cooking while resting in a cooler finish it. It's just one of those things you have to learn and feel over time, an art more than a science.

 

[irishboy209]

Not that I recall, I'm not sure I could explain why the outer edges of the flat would be lower in temp than the middle thicker part.

When I cook on the Mak I always keep it under 245* and have found that I don't have issues with the radiant heat off the deflector at those temps. I tried cooking at a higher temp...275* I think...and did have some charring issues on the bottom of the brisket. So I just cook at lower temps now because aside from taking longer, it doesn't really require any extra effort on my part. If I were going to cook above 245* I would either put the shelf in and cook on the top rack or I would put the brisket in a foil pan with a wire rack inside of it to give it a little extra buffer from the heat.

There's been times where the rest of the brisket was probing well, it had "the jiggle", but that thickest part of the flat still had more resistance than I wanted, and I'd just go ahead and pull it and let the carryover cooking while resting in a cooler finish it. It's just one of those things you have to learn and feel over time, an art more than a science.

Thank you very much for all the help this has been very knowledgeable information.

That is a good point about the temperature on the grill. Are you usually doing fat cap up or down? I understand a lot of radiant heat comes from the bottom but it seems like the convection air movement might actually be better with fat cap up on top with a pellet grill

 

[Mike in Roseville]

Thank you very much for all the help this has been very knowledgeable information.

That is a good point about the temperature on the grill. Are you usually doing fat cap up or down? I understand a lot of radiant heat comes from the bottom but it seems like the convection air movement might actually be better with fat cap up on top with a pellet grill

What type of cooker are you using?

General rule is Fat Faces the Fire. So on a stick burner you'd go fat up, on a WSM or drum fat side down. But if you like doing the other way...cool. I usually go fat down and then when I wrap I go fat up to finish.

Also, consider moving up to a 12-14lb brisket. I know its tempting to get those small packers, but one time I opted for a little one like that it and it was ok...but not as good as your run of the mill 14lb'ers.

Whereabouts in the 209 are you?

 

[irishboy209]

What type of cooker are you using?

General rule is Fat Faces the Fire. So on a stick burner you'd go fat up, on a WSM or drum fat side down. But if you like doing the other way...cool. I usually go fat down and then when I wrap I go fat up to finish.

Also, consider moving up to a 12-14lb brisket. I know its tempting to get those small packers, but one time I opted for a little one like that it and it was ok...but not as good as your run of the mill 14lb'ers.

Whereabouts in the 209 are you?

A pellet grill. I wasn't sure about the heat source since a pellet grill is like a convection oven.

I usually try to get a bigger brisket but it is kind of hard because it's just my wife and I so I got to freeze a lot of it.

I am in the Modesto area of the 209

 

[Mike in Roseville]

A pellet grill. I wasn't sure about the heat source since a pellet grill is like a convection oven.

I usually try to get a bigger brisket but it is kind of hard because it's just my wife and I so I got to freeze a lot of it.

At smoking temps I'm not sure the convection temps would be more than any other type of cooker.

Yeah, a vac sealer is a great investment when you start doing briskets and pork butts.

I am in the Modesto area of the 209

I think I know where that is.