KCBS Judging

[Bill-Chicago]

Personally, I love when judges bring their coolers and this whole thread reminds me of another pre-eminent judge and my favorite cooler carrier.

My secret is sleeping with the judges the night before to insure all 9's

.

 

[bignburlyman]

That I would completely understand but they all came from single meat. thats what is frustrating

I believe with ribs you can have a bone from the center of the slab, that is the thickest meat, be completely different texture & tenderness than the bones closer to the ends. Also taste could be affected by many things. Just imagine if you had a chunk of burnt sauce on your cook rack that stuck to the rib when you pulled the slab off. When slicing it was not noticed, and went into the box with this charred bit of sauce charcoal. The judge that gets that rib takes a bite and that charred bit is the only thing they can taste, maybe tastes like creosote. That judge give you a 5 and hopefully a comment card that says "tastes like creosote". The other 5 judges don't get a rib that has a piggyback bit of burnt whatever. It is a great rack of ribs and all of them give 9's. Is the judge that gave a 5 wrong, and an idiot? I don't believe so. There are so many other variables that "could" cause a judge to have an outlier score and not be wrong.



:NOTE: The above was just my speculation and what if regarding scores. Judge 5 could actually be an idiot. :icon_smile_tongue::becky:

 

[Fat Freddy]

Not to dismiss poor judges, because there are some floating out there, do you know if the event had celebrity judges? They tend to be the worst, with low scores common. I have sat with several over the years

I think before things got off like they did Okie made a great point here. I have seen celebrity judges almost kill a comp before and actually cause people to quit competing. Not saying right or not saying wrong anything like that and I even understand why the contest may feel the need for a celebrity judge, maybe from sponsor or what not.. But I personally have been at 2 contests where the rep came around after the comp apologizing for a celebrity judge. 2 different states 2 different reps. And I do understand the lowest scores thrown out and even at one of those contests I finished 3rd Overall behind Porky Butts and Smokey D's. So it didnt hurt me. But I know of a guy who was very consistent in brisket who got 8's and 9's from 5 judges and 4,4,4 from another. The assumption by all is that that particular score had to be from the celebrity judge. So i think maybe most the time the KCBS certified judges do a purty good job but every once in a while a judge whether new or celebrity or just flat a bad judge, make things look bad for all judges

 

[bignburlyman]

I agree about celebrity judges, but the absolute harshest judge I ever encountered was a celebrity cook who has several BBQ Books in print, and has been around forever, with several competition championships. Nothing met that cooks standards and the scores reflected that. And I know the scores because I was entering the score cards.

I think before things got off like they did Okie made a great point here. I have seen celebrity judges almost kill a comp before and actually cause people to quit competing. Not saying right or not saying wrong anything like that and I even understand why the contest may feel the need for a celebrity judge, maybe from sponsor or what not.. But I personally have been at 2 contests where the rep came around after the comp apologizing for a celebrity judge. 2 different states 2 different reps. And I do understand the lowest scores thrown out and even at one of those contests I finished 3rd Overall behind Porky Butts and Smokey D's. So it didnt hurt me. But I know of a guy who was very consistent in brisket who got 8's and 9's from 5 judges and 4,4,4 from another. The assumption by all is that that particular score had to be from the celebrity judge. So i think maybe most the time the KCBS certified judges do a purty good job but every once in a while a judge whether new or celebrity or just flat a bad judge, make things look bad for all judges

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

I believe with ribs you can have a bone from the center of the slab, that is the thickest meat, be completely different texture & tenderness than the bones closer to the ends. Also taste could be affected by many things. Just imagine if you had a chunk of burnt sauce on your cook rack that stuck to the rib when you pulled the slab off. When slicing it was not noticed, and went into the box with this charred bit of sauce charcoal. The judge that gets that rib takes a bite and that charred bit is the only thing they can taste, maybe tastes like creosote. That judge give you a 5 and hopefully a comment card that says "tastes like creosote". The other 5 judges don't get a rib that has a piggyback bit of burnt whatever. It is a great rack of ribs and all of them give 9's. Is the judge that gave a 5 wrong, and an idiot? I don't believe so. There are so many other variables that "could" cause a judge to have an outlier score and not be wrong.



:NOTE: The above was just my speculation and what if regarding scores. Judge 5 could actually be an idiot. :icon_smile_tongue::becky:

Agreed!

The same goes with brisket slices, 6 slices should be 1.5", tenderness can be different in that much space on a brisket. As we all know, tenderness shouldn't change taste scores, but it will!

 

[gettinbasted]

I believe with ribs you can have a bone from the center of the slab, that is the thickest meat, be completely different texture & tenderness than the bones closer to the ends. Also taste could be affected by many things. Just imagine if you had a chunk of burnt sauce on your cook rack that stuck to the rib when you pulled the slab off. When slicing it was not noticed, and went into the box with this charred bit of sauce charcoal. The judge that gets that rib takes a bite and that charred bit is the only thing they can taste, maybe tastes like creosote. That judge give you a 5 and hopefully a comment card that says "tastes like creosote". The other 5 judges don't get a rib that has a piggyback bit of burnt whatever. It is a great rack of ribs and all of them give 9's. Is the judge that gave a 5 wrong, and an idiot? I don't believe so. There are so many other variables that "could" cause a judge to have an outlier score and not be wrong.



:NOTE: The above was just my speculation and what if regarding scores. Judge 5 could actually be an idiot. :icon_smile_tongue::becky:

I switched my “normal” rib box presentation from 5 on 5 to 4 on 4 for this very reason, but I’m just an over saucing 640-650 cook!

 

[airedale]

I switched my “normal” rib box presentation from 5 on 5 to 4 on 4 for this very reason, but I’m just an over saucing 640-650 cook!

But why put in more than six? If you assume that all of them are not exactly the same, then there have to be two that are inferior to the other six. Why take a chance that the two worst ones will end up on judge's plates and the two best ones will end up on the leftover table?

I have wondered the same thing with pork, where the box often contains both sliced brisket and burnt ends/aka chunks of point. Wouldn't it make more sense to turn in one or the other, whichever is likely to get the better score? Same-o pork, both money muscle and pulled instead of the better of the two?


Just a relatively new judge here, learning ...

 

[masque13]

But why put in more than six? If you assume that all of them are not exactly the same, then there have to be two that are inferior to the other six. Why take a chance that the two worst ones will end up on judge's plates and the two best ones will end up on the leftover table?

I have wondered the same thing with pork, where the box often contains both sliced brisket and burnt ends/aka chunks of point. Wouldn't it make more sense to turn in one or the other, whichever is likely to get the better score? Same-o pork, both money muscle and pulled instead of the better of the two?


Just a relatively new judge here, learning ...

I put more than 6 in because of trying to provide a good presentation. to me 8 bones in the box fills it up nicely and makes it look real nice, assuming I've cooked my ribs right.

 

[gettinbasted]

But why put in more than six? If you assume that all of them are not exactly the same, then there have to be two that are inferior to the other six. Why take a chance that the two worst ones will end up on judge's plates and the two best ones will end up on the leftover table?

I have wondered the same thing with pork, where the box often contains both sliced brisket and burnt ends/aka chunks of point. Wouldn't it make more sense to turn in one or the other, whichever is likely to get the better score? Same-o pork, both money muscle and pulled instead of the better of the two?


Just a relatively new judge here, learning ...

If you have 1 rack that’s noticeably better than the others, your best bet is to turn in as many bones from that one as you can and fill in as needed to make 6. I usually have 2-3 racks that are equally 7 worthy so I will run with two at that point. Hence the quotation marks. Sometimes only 6 make the box, but if things are right, I’ll run two racks.

As far as the pork goes, your 9 is another man’s 7. BBQ is subjective regardless of seating algorithms and forum hand wringing. I put what I think is good in the box. Obviously if I know my chunks aren’t up to snuff, they don’t go. I’m reminded of a practice competition I did a few years back where we talked to the judges afterwards. I put 3 different presentations in the box and while talking to the judges afterward, they were split on their favorite. 2 for pulled, 2 for chunks and 2 for MM. which one should I have left out? I score really well with full boxes. Now whether that’s because judges like full boxes or because my box is only full when my stuff is on is anyone’s guess.

The point is, you have to know what good is and believe in yourself. Don’t second guess your judgement. If you know something is crap, only put in the best. To counter, if it’s good, don’t be scared to fill it up because that’s where the big numbers come from. In other words, play not to get hurt when you have to and go for a score when you can.

The rest will cost you $650!

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

But why put in more than six? If you assume that all of them are not exactly the same, then there have to be two that are inferior to the other six. Why take a chance that the two worst ones will end up on judge's plates and the two best ones will end up on the leftover table?




Just a relatively new judge here, learning ...

My friends would never just fill a box, their best product goes in. Could be why their names are always called?

 

[rob g]

But why put in more than six? If you assume that all of them are not exactly the same, then there have to be two that are inferior to the other six. Why take a chance that the two worst ones will end up on judge's plates and the two best ones will end up on the leftover table?.

I agree that you should only put the best meat in the box. At the same time 8 bones of ribs saved one cook when I picked a bone out of the box and the adjacent one came with it. They were cut thru but glued together by the sauce. Had there only been 6 pieces in the box there wouldn't have been enough for all the judges.

 

[West River BBQ]

Had there only been 6 pieces in the box there wouldn't have been enough for all the judges.

Good point.

 

[tduffy]

....... In other words, play not to get hurt when you have to and go for a score when you can.

This. All day.



I had to play defense instead of offense this last weekend with pork. My slices were great but one of my other presentations just wasn't on point. I knew that if I built my normal box that it would hurt me so I had to go a different direction. Ultimately what I put in met my standards for taste and tenderness but after it was turned in and going to awards I was not as confident in my entry. Everything was good but it wasn't what I typically turn in and get good scores with. I salvaged a 5th place pork call. Just a good reminder to always go with your instincts and If it isn't good, don't put it in.