KCBS judges and Team Score Sheets

[TooSaucedToPork]

So...hypothetical.

If we were to create a program called "Gamechangers" where at a contest, teams could cook 1 entry and submit it for blind judging, so that it could be picked apart by judges, and comments on improvement could be given. Would this be legal? It could be after turnins, and before awards.

It would help judges openly talk about their tastes, and teams get the comments they want.

????

 

[Podge]

I could say what I've posted another way: Cooks got nothing to lose and a lot to gain when a judge knows if they got your stuff or not and get feedback..

judges on the other hand, could either be listened to constructively, or... well.... get a hot-headed cook's opinion on the judge's opinion.

 

[Uncle Buds BBQ]

So...hypothetical.

If we were to create a program called "Gamechangers" where at a contest, teams could cook 1 entry and submit it for blind judging, so that it could be picked apart by judges, and comments on improvement could be given. Would this be legal? It could be after turnins, and before awards.

It would help judges openly talk about their tastes, and teams get the comments they want.

????

Wow. That's the best farkin' idea I have heard in awhile!

 

[Gowan]

MBN and KCBS are fundamentally different in the way entries are judged. Suggesting that one organization is "wrong" and should adopt the methods of the other is just silly.

You might as well start an argument over which is "better", beef or chicken. Answer is neither - they are just different.

 

[bbq.tom]

You might as well start an argument over which is "better", beef or chicken. Answer is neither - they are just different.

Everyone knows the answer is PORK!!!

 

[TooSaucedToPork]

MBN and KCBS are fundamentally different in the way entries are judged. Suggesting that one organization is "wrong" and should adopt the methods of the other is just silly.

You might as well start an argument over which is "better", beef or chicken. Answer is neither - they are just different.

Never said either was wrong or right...just pointing out the fact that judge/team relationships in Mbn are way different than KCBS. Teams in KCBS want a way to find out straight from a judge's mouth what is wrong with their entry. In MBN a judge comes back and tells you to your face, we have nothing in KCBS to provide that....

That was the explanation behind the bandwagon post. Both KCBS and MBN have their faults and their perks...but one difference right now is MBN is focusing on helping the cooks improve their game. They have held BBQ Bootcamps with real judges, and top teams instructing. These Bootcamps cost $50 a person...They are also evaluating their judges...

If you settle, you're dead.
If it ain't broke...break it

Be proactive and anticipate what your BBQ constituents want and you stay in office...

 

[Jorge]

Never said either was wrong or right...just pointing out the fact that judge/team relationships in Mbn are way different than KCBS. Teams in KCBS want a way to find out straight from a judge's mouth what is wrong with their entry. In MBN a judge comes back and tells you to your face, we have nothing in KCBS to provide that....

That was the explanation behind the bandwagon post. Both KCBS and MBN have their faults and their perks...but one difference right now is MBN is focusing on helping the cooks improve their game. They have held BBQ Bootcamps with real judges, and top teams instructing. These Bootcamps cost $50 a person...They are also evaluating their judges...

If you settle, you're dead.
If it ain't broke...break it

Be proactive and anticipate what your BBQ constituents want and you stay in office...

Or focusing on current and core services can work as well.

 

[TooSaucedToPork]

Or focusing on current and core services can work as well.

Not to be rude but you are saying to Focus on same old same old and don't rock the boat?

There is absolutely nothing in current or core KCBS services that provides Cooks an intimate look into why their entries are not scoring well. Just a number you have to guess at.

I cook in both KCBS and MBN organizations...I like both organizations, but the MBN challenger series is being proactive and serving their membership and cook teams with new ideas and programs...they are listening to what their teams want and are adding programs that benefit their cook teams to their

current and core services

Yes, in KCBS we got a new score sheet...yes it shows how we did on a table, yes it shows average judge scores...but it still does ABSOLUTELY nothing to help a cook better themselves.

KCBS provides a test, but no way to learn from it...its the same as taking a test in school and not being told the correct answers when you fail. You can't learn from your mistakes without the knowledge of why you made them.

 

[Gowan]

If we are to be honest, MBN is in a position now where they have to try something different because the organization has been losing contests, teams and judges since MIM broke off.

On the flip side of the coin, KCBS is booming, so there is little motivation to meddle with something that is working well, at least at this point in time.

 

[TooSaucedToPork]

If we are to be honest, MBN is in a position now where they have to try something different because the organization has been losing contests, teams and judges since MIM broke off.

On the flip side of the coin, KCBS is booming, so there is little motivation to meddle with something that is working well, at least at this point in time.

As any successful entrepreneur will tell you, just because business is booming doesn't mean you sit back and let it ride. The moment you are no longer motivated to change for the better, is the moment you start becoming obsolete. KCBS got where they are with a vision, they are now like the Disney of BBQ.

Disney has stayed on top by developing the next new thing. But did you know they had first crack at the Harry Potter franchise, but wouldn't give the author the rights to approve the park. Universal (who was not doing well) gave that power, and the Multi-billion in profit Wizarding World of Harry Potter was born. Disney handed over billions because it was "booming" and "didn't want to meddle with something that works so well." Disney kicks itself everyday for its mistake.

Don't ever get complacent of where you are...there is always better.

 

[Jorge]

Not to be rude but you are saying to Focus on same old same old and don't rock the boat?

There is absolutely nothing in current or core KCBS services that provides Cooks an intimate look into why their entries are not scoring well. Just a number you have to guess at.

I cook in both KCBS and MBN organizations...I like both organizations, but the MBN challenger series is being proactive and serving their membership and cook teams with new ideas and programs...they are listening to what their teams want and are adding programs that benefit their cook teams to their

Yes, in KCBS we got a new score sheet...yes it shows how we did on a table, yes it shows average judge scores...but it still does ABSOLUTELY nothing to help a cook better themselves.

KCBS provides a test, but no way to learn from it...its the same as taking a test in school and not being told the correct answers when you fail. You can't learn from your mistakes without the knowledge of why you made them.

I'm saying that the priority should be on delivering the best service possible as it currently exists, before introducing new programs or practices used elsewhere. Down the road I wouldn't object if there was a clear benefit. Right now I wouldn't want to dedicate resources to emulating an organization that was nearly absorbed by KCBS in recent years.

 

[Gowan]

As any successful entrepreneur will tell you, just because business is booming doesn't mean you sit back and let it ride. The moment you are no longer motivated to change for the better, is the moment you start becoming obsolete. KCBS got where they are with a vision, they are now like the Disney of BBQ.

Disney has stayed on top by developing the next new thing. But did you know they had first crack at the Harry Potter franchise, but wouldn't give the author the rights to approve the park. Universal (who was not doing well) gave that power, and the Multi-billion in profit Wizarding World of Harry Potter was born. Disney handed over billions because it was "booming" and "didn't want to meddle with something that works so well." Disney kicks itself everyday for its mistake.

Don't ever get complacent of where you are...there is always better.

And then there is the Edsel, Microsoft BOB, the IBM Convertible, Betamax, New Coke, Santa Claus Conquers the Martians and my personal favorite, the DeLorean.

Sometimes the best thing you can do is leave it alone if it is working.

But what do I know? I'm just another entrepreneur down here working in the trenches with everyday people for the last 30 years. If I had billions laying around I'd probably give it away to folks who needed it, so a robber baron I'll never be.

 

[gmholler]

This brings to mind something we (judges) were discussing at a recent contest. What are the pros and cons with this new score sheet showing just what judge gave what score? One judge indicated he feared retribution from the cook if someone made the connection between where he sat and that place giving a sample a low score and I can't say I heard anything but "Yeah, that's what's gonna happen!" from the rest of those present...

Lynn H.

 

[Big Mike]

I must say, I like the new score sheet. I like that I can see how I did against others at the table and how the judges scored on average. And as far as I am concerned, if I am allowed to see it, I don't see why judges can't be provided the same information.

We as cooks use these scores to guage ourselves against each other and where we need to improve. If a judge sees his/her score is consistently higher or lower than other judges then they can look into why they seem to be off compared to everyone else.

 

[bearnakedbbq]

Here is an open invitation to any judges that are judging the JACK. You are welcome to taste and hopefully critique my food AFTER the event.

Bear Naked BBQ from Alaska.

Troy

 

[bearnakedbbq]

Would like to add. Any team wishing to taste my BBQ are welcome also. All I ask is for honest feedback and if you want to swap sample for sample that would be great also. I would love to try someone else's BBQ.

Troy