Judges: How do you pick your samples?

[majorlee69]

Incredibly informative!! thanks for your answers and thank you dmprantz for your question!!

 

[Bentley]

When a box with meat in it is presented to you, how do you pick which sample you are going to eat? What have you seen other judges do? Examples:

Ribs: Do you always pick from either end, or will you take a middle rib? Do you always pick from the top row, or will you pick from the bottom row, even if it currently has something else on top of it?

Chicken: Do you always take an outside piece, or will you take a piece which is currently surrounded by other pieces?

Pork: If there are slices or chunks in the box, will you always take an outside piece? If there is pulled, do you always get uncovered pulled, or do you dig underneeth other peices?

Brisket: Same question on burnt ends if there. Also, do you always take the "top" slice, or will you dig underneeth and take the bottom or a middle slice?

In general, do you try to get the piece that is most convenient, looks like it will taste the best, or do you try to find the worst piece in the box and judge that? I've heard of judges who do that with ribs in FBA.

Thanks,

dmp

I will take what I consider to be the best piece I see that is avaiable. Never paid attention to what other judges are doing.

I will take a middle rib if it is calling me!

Will take a piece of chicken that is "surrounded".

Pork & Brisket, again best piece(s) avaiable...

I think you can tell what piece I am trying to get...

Huh...picking the worst piece, man I guess I am just a self centered, selfish SOB, would never dawn on me to do that...

 

[Gowan]

et tu Gowan? Presentation, really? Looks like quite a few folks need to read the KCBS judging criteria; Appearance, Taste, Tenderness. Presentation is not there.

I think you're splitting hairs there. I guess I use the the words "Appearance" and "Presentation" interchangeably like a lot of folks do. Same deal for Taste/Flavor and Tenderness/Texture. Knowing the procedures and standards for KCBS judging is more important than the terminology used IMO.

-GF

 

[QN]

I think you're splitting hairs there. I guess I use the the words "Appearance" and "Presentation" interchangeably like a lot of folks do. Same deal for Taste/Flavor and Tenderness/Texture. Knowing the procedures and standards for KCBS judging is more important than the terminology used IMO.

-GF

I agree it is terminoogy; however, based on comments I have heard made by judges this year at contests I have judged, there is a perception when people talk about judging presentation rather than appearance that they are considering/judging more than the appearance of the meat when determining what score they write down. While you can use the terms presentation and appearance interchangeably all you want to, they do not mean the same thing and from what I have observed it can have an impact on appearance scores. When you use the term presentation people start to talk about what garnish was used, how the garnish looked, how the garnish was arranged, etc. etc. It is a meat contest and we are supposed to judge the appearance of the meat, not presentation. I think a lot of folks using the term presentation has resulted in some lower appearance scores and that is based on my personal first-hand observations and conversations with judges at contests this year, not just splittng hairs. Flavor is definitely a big part of taste as texture is of tenderness. Appearance of the meat and presentation can be two quite differnet criteria.

 

[2Fat]

I will take what I consider to be the best piece I see that is avaiable. Never paid attention to what other judges are doing.

I will take a middle rib if it is calling me!

Will take a piece of chicken that is "surrounded".

Pork & Brisket, again best piece(s) available...

I think you can tell what piece I am trying to get...

Huh...picking the worst piece, man I guess I am just a self centered, selfish SOB, would never dawn on me to do that...

I do exactly the same!!

 

[dmprantz]

It's more complicated than that though. Presentation doesn't just mean the garnish. It also includes how the meat is arranged: Are you covering ribs, are your thighs similar in size and shape, and laid out symmetrically. Are your slices all lined up neatly. These are things that have nothing to do with garnish, but are still part of "presentation" more than "appearance" and still get judged in that score. Regardless of the garnish, I have found that judges score better for food which presents well, not just food that looks good to eat. Right or wrong, that's what I've found.

dmp

 

[Gowan]

Fair enough Mark.

The Great Greenery Debate has been going on as long as I've been doing KCBS events, I my guess is that it will continue forever as there doesn't seem to ever be enough anti-garnish folks to make the salad go away.

My own approach as a cook is to accept the fact that garnish does matter in KCBS events, even though the rules say otherwise. There are the published rules and then there is the harsh reality of what does and doesn't score well, and I think realigning your head to this is one of the hardest things for a good cook to adjust to when they move to competition cooking.

In some ways it is actually easier for a total novice to get into KCBS events because they can simply Google up the so-called "popular flavors" recipes and turn out paint-by-numbers competition BBQ without too much difficulty. Those of us who are foolish enough to try to coax the judges over to our own personal view of what championship BBQ is take a lot of Blues Hog beat-downs for our efforts. :wink:

 

[Brewer]

I'm with Bentley, I take the best looking piece and don't give a sh*t about what the other judges think. It's always random and I'm selfish.

 

[QN]

It's more complicated than that though. Presentation doesn't just mean the garnish. It also includes how the meat is arranged: Are you covering ribs, are your thighs similar in size and shape, and laid out symmetrically. Are your slices all lined up neatly. These are things that have nothing to do with garnish, but are still part of "presentation" more than "appearance" and still get judged in that score. Regardless of the garnish, I have found that judges score better for food which presents well, not just food that looks good to eat. Right or wrong, that's what I've found.

dmp

Yes, I completely agree with you. The word "presentation" being used by many when they should be using the term appearance is part of the problem. This has become prevalent througout KCBS; KCBS officials, cooks, judges, authors of Bull Sheet articles, etc. are all using the term presentation. You can say it is just semantics and try to minimize the issue, but your statement about judges scoring better for food which "presents well" is a great example of what is happening to appearance judging. Cooks and judges are both overthinking what should be involved in appearance and it is impacting appearance scores.

 

[Disconnect]

Yes, I completely agree with you. The word "presentation" being used by many when they should be using the term appearance is part of the problem. This has become prevalent througout KCBS; KCBS officials, cooks, judges, authors of Bull Sheet articles, etc. are all using the term presentation. You can say it is just semantics and try to minimize the issue, but your statement about judges scoring better for food which "presents well" is a great example of what is happening to appearance judging. Cooks and judges are both overthinking what should be involved in appearance and it is impacting appearance scores.

Maybe I've been lucky with the comps we've done, but I've seen some winners building boxes that had terrible looking greens (by our team standards.) I know appearance is weighted down, but if "presentation" (neatness of greens, etc) was as important as some are saying it would easily have pushed them out of the first/second spot. (Somewhat disappointing to us, since my wife can make a curly lettuce box worthy of framing :becky

Personally, I don't really care. I love the way the boxes look with greens, but we've done a no-garnish event before and that was OK too. I'll just go with whatever KCBS decides is "right". Unless they eliminate curly lettuce, then we might have to have a chat out back :caked:

I do appreciate the feedback judges give here. That is one of the things I always look for in these threads, and we find it incredibly helpful.