Getting a comment card...

[bbq.tom]

50 teams would generate 1200 comment cards, requiring even more volunteers or pushing back the awards ceremony time.

No, instead of 1200 "comment cards" KCBS can change the score card to have room for a comment on each entry. The North Carolina BBQ Association does this very successfully.
This would actually mean less time between the last category judged and the award ceremony as there would be NO additional comment cards to sort and staple to the score sheet.

And, it really doesn't take much extra time at all to write a brief comment.

 

[Bearded Pigs BBQ]

How about they just make sure whatever comment cards that the judges write are useful, I have gotten a few that flat out said ok this was wrong, change this etc.. those are great they let you know where to work on. Then i have got some that I have no clue what the heck people are saying, even went to other teams and asked them and they had no clue. So im fine with it only being a few but make sure they are useful to someone.

 

[Candy Sue]

No, instead of 1200 "comment cards" KCBS can change the score card to have room for a comment on each entry. The North Carolina BBQ Association does this very successfully.
This would actually mean less time between the last category judged and the award ceremony as there would be NO additional comment cards to sort and staple to the score sheet.

And, it really doesn't take much extra time at all to write a brief comment.

So teams get their scorecards to see the comments?

 

[Alexa RnQ]

How about they just make sure whatever comment cards that the judges write are useful, I have gotten a few that flat out said ok this was wrong, change this etc.. those are great they let you know where to work on. Then i have got some that I have no clue what the heck people are saying, even went to other teams and asked them and they had no clue. So im fine with it only being a few but make sure they are useful to someone.

I don't want anyone censoring the comment cards intended for my team. We've received comments that seemed nonsensical on their face -- "ribs were tough and fell off the bone" -- but upon reflection we figured out what the judge was trying to tell us and fixed it.

At the very least the comment card delivers an impression, and if one person had that impression of your product it's to your benefit to know.

While not all comment cards are well articulated, judges don't need to be Pulitzer Prize winners, they just need to deliver accurate impressions. And with all that competitors have on the line, the only one I want deciding if a comment card is valuable to my team or not, is me.

 

[Bearded Pigs BBQ]

I don't want anyone censoring the comment cards intended for my team. We've received comments that seemed nonsensical on their face -- "ribs were tough and fell off the bone" -- but upon reflection we figured out what the judge was trying to tell us and fixed it.

At the very least the comment card delivers an impression, and if one person had that impression of your product it's to your benefit to know.

While not all comment cards are well articulated, judges don't need to be Pulitzer Prize winners, they just need to deliver accurate impressions. And with all that competitors have on the line, the only one I want deciding if a comment card is valuable to my team or not, is me.

I agree with that but maybe have a table captain review it and just kind of let they person know they aren't too clear.. i had one card that said my food tasted like it was in a vacuum sealed environment so something like that maybe if they explained it better it may make sense.

 

[bbq.tom]

So teams get their scorecards to see the comments?

YES, with the CBJ number, but no name. NCBBQA CBJ numbers start in the 6-digit range, which would be difficult, but not impossible for teams to try to match up judge numbers with judges, but is that such a bad thing - after the fact? Some judges visit teams after judging, but MOST judges don't hang around for the award ceremony. Therefore, matching up a judges number after awards isn't realistic.

 

[Bob in Corona]

Tom...
That would totally break one of KCBS's basic tenets, blind judging. Around in our part of this country, many a team and judge are close friends but still able to maintain the blind judging. We see each other, contest after contest.

 

[Vince RnQ]

As I said before, "Where there is a will, there is a way".

People who don't want it to happen will find any and every excuse to keep it from happening while those who do want it to happen will overcome any obstacle in the way.

 

[DUBBAGA]

PNWBA seems to have a good process to follow. It seems to address the double blind requirements nicely. Of course, they also have 1hr between submissions, which allows for the expanded use of comment cards.

http://www.pnwba.com/documents/2015/PNWBA_Judges_Instructions_2015.pdf

... my favorite item is the Third section under Judging Procedure :behindsofa:

 

[bbq.tom]

Tom...
That would totally break one of KCBS's basic tenets, blind judging. Around in our part of this country, many a team and judge are close friends but still able to maintain the blind judging. We see each other, contest after contest.

"Blind judging" means that the judges have no idea what team they are judging.

"Double-blind judging" means that the teams have no idea what judge actually gave them scores.

My wife and I are friends with many teams and see them each week, but I've NEVER had any of their competition ready turn-in samples so I can honestly state that I have NO IDEA of what team I might judge based on flavor profile or appearance.

Unless a cook team memorizes judge numbers there would be NO violation of the "double-blind judging" and ABSOLUTELY NO violation of the "blind judging process".

 

[Gowan]

I believe what Bob is saying is that when there is a way for either side to identify who the other party is you open up room for problems. One example is where a team tracks down a judge that gave them low scores and berates them. Another would be where a judge purposefully lowballs the scores on an entry because they know the team it came from. (Both of these have happened in the Memphis-style events where judges come to the team sites)

Another issue is that if the original score cards are returned to the cook teams, there is no way to audit the contest results or track down a problem when a scoring mistake is alleged. Under the current system, all score cards are returned to the KCBS office by the Reps immediately after the contest. If the cards go to the teams, then the sanctioning body has no way to verify that there were no errors during the data entry process.

 

[GrillBillie_D]

I believe what Bob is saying is that when there is a way for either side to identify who the other party is you open up room for problems. One example is where a team tracks down a judge that gave them low scores and berates them. Another would be where a judge purposefully lowballs the scores on an entry because they know the team it came from. (Both of these have happened in the Memphis-style events where judges come to the team sites)

There is an easy solution to this issue. Renumber the judges just like they do the boxes. Judges are assigned random numbers at each contest. The number on the score sheet is meaningless to the team just like the number on the box is to the judge.

 

[jcog44]

The table numbers now are mostly blind to the teams (it's a choice when printing). Table 4 for example may show up on the team's score sheet as Table 631. As a judge, I only know that I sat at Table 4, and have no idea how my Table was numbered on the printout.