Changes to Master Cuts contests...

[bigabyte]

So, an anonymous person named KnucklhedBBQ sent me this PM...

Hey Chris - Godda question for you, For my TD entry I planned on creating a plate from belly done 4 different ways, but the more I think about rules 5 & 6, the more unsure I am about how close to the line I'm getting.

So you don't have to look for the rules in question:

5. Your dish must consist of Pork Belly as a primary feature.
6. No sides are allowed. You may however dress your dish with other (edible) items to pull the dish together into one specific entree. For example, with a steak you could make a bed of salad greens, topped with sliced steak, and dressed with other foods. However, a steak with a baked potato and/or asparagus on the side is not allowed. The entree you create must stand on it's own.

I'll try to explain the whole thing to you and see if it's kinda cut & dry or if it will be a "let the voters decide" type scenario.

Primary dish/protien on plate - smoked uncured belly. (no question here)

Second dish on the plate - homemade pancetta in carbonara sauce (no pasta tho, it will be another surprise ingredient) Technically this is a side, but it will be chock full of pancetta, and will definitely be the dominant flavor, so I kinda feel that as long as the photos show the pancetta as the main focal point it would pass...? LTVD?

Third item with the meal, homemade bacon mac & cheese with crumbled bacon & bread crumb topping - Again technically a side, but using another form of belly prominently in the dish... sooo... ?

fourth item with the meal, fresh garden salad with bacon crumbles and homemade smoked cracklins/pork rinds used as croutons, again, same as above, but another use of the belly (and noone has done cracklins yet! :shocked


Really all I'm looking for from you is wether these "sides" will be a straight up DQ, or a LTVD?

Thanks bro!

Ry

I replied thusly....

Well, the spirit of the rule was meant so that it was one single item, but could be dressed up. For example, I did not want people to think they could not put onion straws or cheese crumbles on top of the meat, or have a bed of rice that the meat is on top of. Even with all these it made one item. So I think what you're proposing is not in line with the spirit of the rule in that you are making 4 items, each separate, and not meant to "dress" the main single entry.

You could do a double entry though in terms of making a pork belly entry for the Masters Throwdown, and then that same item but with the sides in the Independence Day Throwdown. That one is basically an open category.

The reason I put that rule in was to get away from people who are having trouble deciding and letting a side veggie or a bottle of beer influence their vote. The Masters are meat and meat only in spirit, but that doesn't mean you just cook a piece of meat and take a pic of it as just plain meat. You can decorate it, you just can have any other items.

Sorry.

Ryan had a suggestion as follows...

No worries bro, I appreciate the reply.

I totally agree with you that it sucks to see an entry take the lead because of something unassociated with the focal point.

I'll change tack and revise my approach.

I would like to leave you with this thought - And I mean this to be considered for future categories, not this one, It would seem that the spirit of a "master's cut" category would encourage multiple variations of implementation of said cut.

For instance, if salmon was the cut in question, the obvious 2 paths might be fillets and steaks, however, wouldn't a person be considered a "Master" of that cut if they were capable of demonstrating the many different uses of salmon?

They might present a fillet and steak but also show that they also make great smoked salmon, locks, salmon roe, salted fillets, sashimi, even fish head soup... (Uh-Oh Gore :heh

In short, the person that could do all of them well would seem to be a true "Master" of that cut, right?

And I'm not really talking about "who can produce the most food type of thing, but "Alright, you can make locks, so what? Show me something that makes me want to eat it!" "Salted fish??? WTH do I use that for?? - Ooohhh, you made that with salted fish... daaamn!"

While there are similarities that can be drawn to the Belly master's cut, please understand, I'm really not trying to sway your position on this category, the rules have been set, however, consider fine tuning them for future rounds! :thumb:

I do realize that this might open up a whole 'nother slew of clarifications, but if we're really trying to find THE Master of each category, is it worth it? I don't know the answer to that question...

Thanks mang! :wink:

Ry

And this was my reply...

Well, I'm reasonable, and I'm almost swayed to allow it for this Master's contest if all of them met rule #5 and featured the category as the prominent ingredient. I don't think there would be a lot of argument. But Rule #3 farks things up here...

3. Only one dish may be submitted per person.

The definition of "dish" that I looked up on m-w.com and wikipedia state that it is one preparation, or one recipe, that sort of thing. In this case you are definitely making 4 dishes, so I can't wiggle it in with that rule.

I think you have a good point that a Master of a particular cut should not be limited to one dish. So I'm going to have to change the rules to allow this.

My personal preference would be that this doesn't turn into Iron Chef where someone makes Squid Ink Ice Cream when the category is Squid. Squid is barely a feature of the dish in that case. It may be tasty (supposedly), but people can't taste your dish, only see it. So in my opinion what they should see is the category first, how well you prepared it, how tasty it looks, and maybe even the quality of the picture. I don't care how pretty of a picture you take of Squid Ink Ice Cream, if someone saw it and didn't know the category they would have no idea it was related to Squid or any sort of meat at all.

In a future contest, you could probably make these four dishes fit so long as the category was the prominent ingredient. I think even a salad could be pulled off this way, it would just consist visually of more pork belly than other stuff. If it was mostly non-category ingredients with cracklin's sprinkled on top, I'm not sure that fits the spirit either. That's the path that leads to Squid Ink Ice Cream, that's the path that leads to the Dark Side.

So, a revamp of the rules is in order I guess.

Thanks for bringing it up. I think this could be a good change. It's also going to cause confusion. There were a lot of questions when this first came up about rules 3, 5 and 6. I'm sure some folks can't wait to be confused even more (I swear sometimes I think that).

So now that it's out there, I am hoping this helps to clear up the vision I have for what the Master's Cut contests are meant to be. I think what Ryan suggested makes some sense. I of course want the particular cut to be the primary focus of the entire thing, from beginning to end, and not wind up with something like Squid Ink Ice Cream.

Anyone have any thoughts they would like to add? I imposed my rules to begin with, and am considering changing them based on one persons input. So I am open to input at this moment. Take advantage of it while you can, because once I make up my mind, it sticks until someone makes me change my mind again.:thumb:

 

[SmokinAussie]

My only issue is the time it has taken for the current Pork Belly Masters Cut places to fill.

The obvious thing is we think a category will fill up like crazy, and then find that pretty much bugger all people out there are BBQ'ing Bellies... Well, who knew...:noidea:

If we wanna keep a minumum of 10 entries (which I think is a good minumum) then we might wanna make a maximum of 2 entries per person instead of the single entry. In that instance, should a Masters Cut thread turn out to be a little slow, then some enthusiasts of that particular cut might get a second crack at it without the thread dragging on for months.... and I don't think it will disenfranchise potential entrants. They still have until the end of the week in which the 10th entry comes up, so they've got plenty of notice.

Cheers!

Bill

 

[Gore]

All I can say is that I'm completely confused by what was written. It seems you're talking about a rule change, but I don't know what the rule change is. I read the above and it sounds like this:

"Blah, blah, blah, fish heads. Blah, blah, blah, squid ice cream. Blah, blah, blah. Rule 3. Blah, blah, blah. Some confusion may result. Blah, blah, blah."

Well, certainly the confusion part is clear. It seems that you're changing a rule, but I don't see what the change is. Perhaps this will help:

Rule 3: Fish Heads will never be used as a Master's cut category and the use of Fish Heads of any form in a Throwdown will result in immediate Disqualification and Death.

I can fully endorse this rule change as written. :thumb:

 

[KnucklHed BBQ]

Huh... I said all that? Painfully wordy!


I was actually thinking, that it would be more of a demonstration, in 1 plate, that you could pull together so many different inplementations of the cut and make them work, look tasty etc... not really to have "I hade this hunk of meat today - submission #1" And tomorrow just make another version of it to submit and so forth.

Some items would be much easier to regulate the different uses of for example, if Butt is the category, different versions of the same cut that WOULD be acceptable might be:
Pulled pork, sliced pork, BB bacon, char sui... I'm sure there are more.

These are all different forms of the same cut and take different skills to master.

But, the rule would deny a entrant from smoking 1 butt, pulling it, and making one of each of the following - sandwich, taco, burrito, pizza, etc... and plating them, because at the end of it, they all just used the same exact Pulled Pork... not denying that they would all taste great, But we want to see how the base cut can me made into multiple different forms.

Any of that make sense?

Am I taking the funz out of it?

Should I just shaddap and move along? ...prolly...:tsk:

Gorden, we can even put a no feeesh heads clause in there too. wait, what happens when Smokejumper or Lando choose Feeesh heads as the MC? Hmmmm... WHO CARES??? :heh:

 

[El Lobo]

My only issue is the time it has taken for the current Pork Belly Masters Cut places to fill.

Instead of a minimum participant count, why not just have a deadline like the other contests?

 

[Gore]

OK, it seems as though Ryan wants us each to create about 5 dishes using the same meat. I think this is a nice idea. But it is not the Master's series. We should have a new category of "Ironchef Throwdown" -- this will allow Chris to have 3 different types of throwdowns simultaneously. :heh: I like the idea. The problem that I see is that we can't even get 10 people to submit for pork belly. If they have to submit several different dishes, I may not live to see the end of one of the throwdowns.

So I think Ryan has seconded my proposal for a revised rule 3 banning fish heads. We should take that to a vote.

 

[KnucklHed BBQ]

OK, it seems as though Ryan wants us each to create about 5 dishes using the same meat. I think this is a nice idea. But it is not the Master's series. We should have a new category of "Ironchef Throwdown" -- this will allow Chris to have 3 different types of throwdowns simultaneously. :heh: I like the idea. The problem that I see is that we can't even get 10 people to submit for pork belly. If they have to submit several different dishes, I may not live to see the end of one of the throwdowns.

So I think Ryan has seconded my proposal for a revised rule 3 banning fish heads. We should take that to a vote.

Sissy... Can't hack a meaty 5 course TD... pshhhhh!!
But, since I sided with you on the fish head thing, I've pretty much kissed goodbye ever getting any more help from landarc... Wanna hang out?

 

[deguerre]

OK, it seems as though Ryan wants us each to create about 5 dishes using the same meat. I think this is a nice idea. But it is not the Master's series. We should have a new category of "Ironchef Throwdown" -- this will allow Chris to have 3 different types of throwdowns simultaneously. :heh: I like the idea. The problem that I see is that we can't even get 10 people to submit for pork belly. If they have to submit several different dishes, I may not live to see the end of one of the throwdowns.

So I think Ryan has seconded my proposal for a revised rule 3 banning fish heads. We should take that to a vote.

Sissy... Can't hack a meaty 5 course TD... pshhhhh!!
But, since I sided with you on the fish head thing, I've pretty much kissed goodbye ever getting any more help from landarc... Wanna hang out?

Get a room!

 

[bigabyte]

My only issue is the time it has taken for the current Pork Belly Masters Cut places to fill.

The obvious thing is we think a category will fill up like crazy, and then find that pretty much bugger all people out there are BBQ'ing Bellies... Well, who knew...:noidea:

If we wanna keep a minumum of 10 entries (which I think is a good minumum) then we might wanna make a maximum of 2 entries per person instead of the single entry. In that instance, should a Masters Cut thread turn out to be a little slow, then some enthusiasts of that particular cut might get a second crack at it without the thread dragging on for months.... and I don't think it will disenfranchise potential entrants. They still have until the end of the week in which the 10th entry comes up, so they've got plenty of notice.

Cheers!

Bill

The reason I did not want multiple entries is because (believe it or not) some people have said in the past (in the Throwdowns that is) that they think it is unfair when one person posts multiple dishes and that each person should be limited to one entry. That is why there is that limitation in the Throwdowns (except the Special ones where I allow multiple entries). I figured when starting off this new thing that I better just avoid that problem from the start.

Personally, I like allowing multiple entries, but if more people participate if we are limited to one entry, then that is a good thing. When I put up a poll about it (when this issue came up in the Throwdowns), those who did multiple entries didn't care either way, but those who wanted 1 entry per person only wanted it that one way. So, the reasonable option in that case was to limit them to one entry, nobody was upset that way and everyone was happy.

Maybe for cases like this Pork Belly contest, where it is dragging on forever, I can lift the restriction to help fill it up faster. Say if it is going more than 2 or 3 weeks for example. Whaddaya think?

All I can say is that I'm completely confused by what was written. It seems you're talking about a rule change, but I don't know what the rule change is. I read the above and it sounds like this:

"Blah, blah, blah, fish heads. Blah, blah, blah, squid ice cream. Blah, blah, blah. Rule 3. Blah, blah, blah. Some confusion may result. Blah, blah, blah."

Well, certainly the confusion part is clear. It seems that you're changing a rule, but I don't see what the change is. Perhaps this will help:

Rule 3: Fish Heads will never be used as a Master's cut category and the use of Fish Heads of any form in a Throwdown will result in immediate Disqualification and Death.

I can fully endorse this rule change as written. :thumb:

I didn't understand a single thing you said.

Huh... I said all that? Painfully wordy!


I was actually thinking, that it would be more of a demonstration, in 1 plate, that you could pull together so many different inplementations of the cut and make them work, look tasty etc... not really to have "I hade this hunk of meat today - submission #1" And tomorrow just make another version of it to submit and so forth.

Some items would be much easier to regulate the different uses of for example, if Butt is the category, different versions of the same cut that WOULD be acceptable might be:
Pulled pork, sliced pork, BB bacon, char sui... I'm sure there are more.

These are all different forms of the same cut and take different skills to master.

But, the rule would deny a entrant from smoking 1 butt, pulling it, and making one of each of the following - sandwich, taco, burrito, pizza, etc... and plating them, because at the end of it, they all just used the same exact Pulled Pork... not denying that they would all taste great, But we want to see how the base cut can me made into multiple different forms.

Any of that make sense?

Am I taking the funz out of it?

Should I just shaddap and move along? ...prolly...:tsk:

Gorden, we can even put a no feeesh heads clause in there too. wait, what happens when Smokejumper or Lando choose Feeesh heads as the MC? Hmmmm... WHO CARES??? :heh:

I see what you are saying about making multiple preparations of the cut of meat in question, but restricting it so each individual preparation can only be entered as one item (or part of one item).

Thanks for clarifying that. I also like that idea too. Maybe Ryan should run these things!:thumb:

Instead of a minimum participant count, why not just have a deadline like the other contests?

If I remember correctly, that is how it started, but the participation was too low. So the minimum number of entrants rule was made. I kind of like the minimum number of entries now that it is in place. It prevents those cases where only 4 people enter (which happens a lot in the Throwdowns). I just need to find a way to prevent it from dragging out as long as this one, maybe using an idea like Aussie Bill suggested.

OK, it seems as though Ryan wants us each to create about 5 dishes using the same meat. I think this is a nice idea. But it is not the Master's series. We should have a new category of "Ironchef Throwdown" -- this will allow Chris to have 3 different types of throwdowns simultaneously. :heh: I like the idea. The problem that I see is that we can't even get 10 people to submit for pork belly. If they have to submit several different dishes, I may not live to see the end of one of the throwdowns.

So I think Ryan has seconded my proposal for a revised rule 3 banning fish heads. We should take that to a vote.

Are you even speaking English? I still can't understand a single thing you are saying.

 

[Gore]

Sissy... Can't hack a meaty 5 course TD... pshhhhh!!
But, since I sided with you on the fish head thing, I've pretty much kissed goodbye ever getting any more help from landarc... Wanna hang out?

Landarc? He's been stuck in some fish sauce thread the last four days. That's the problem with him, too easily distracted. I'm always there for you, buddy.

Get a room!

Jealous Farker.

 

[Gore]

Are you even speaking English? I still can't understand a single thing you are saying.

Here Chris, try this out. It used to work:

It was understood, that [raian] using the respective same meat for us, as wanted drawing up approximately 5 plates, seems the way. I think of that it is the thought this being splendid. But as for that Master' So it is not; S series. As for us " New section should possess; Ironchef Throwdown" -- This makes that the crith is throwdowns of three types simultaneously possible. I like thought. As for the problem which I see thing us can' So it is; 10 because of the pork stomach the embankment you obtain t in order to come out. If the plate where they differ plural the embankment is not produced, perhaps me in order to look at one end of throwdowns you do not live. Therefore I think of that my proposition for the head of the fish of prohibition of the rule 3 where [raian] was corrected is supported. We should take that in poll.

 

[N8man]

MMMMMMMMSquid Ink Pork Belly Ice CreamMMMMMMMMM!!!!!

 

[KnucklHed BBQ]

Landarc? He's been stuck in some fish sauce thread the last four days. That's the problem with him, too easily distracted. I'm always there for you,

easily distracted?? Huh! Thats an understatement!
Why just last week I was seeking his advice on a sensitive matter when all of a sudden he just ....OOOOOOO!!!! LOOK! SHINEY!!!

 

[SmokinAussie]

Rule 3: Fish Heads will never be used as a Master's cut category and the use of Fish Heads of any form in a Throwdown will result in immediate Disqualification and Death.

I can fully endorse this rule change as written. :thumb:

This "DEATH" thingy...

I dunno... sounds a little too permanent a punishment. Can we pull that back to torture on the rack or something a little less extreme....?
:becky:

 

[landarc]

Hi, whats been happening? Oh, throw down, well, as you all know, my cooking has been sporadic at best. But, I do want to start entering them again. Oddly, I need to go to my local specialty market to get a pork belly and I have just not had the time. If this keeps going, maybe I have three hours next Weds. to cook something.

My clients are killing me, I think they know I am out of the hospital.

 

[Gore]

My only issue is the time it has taken for the current Pork Belly Masters Cut places to fill.

The obvious thing is we think a category will fill up like crazy, and then find that pretty much bugger all people out there are BBQ'ing Bellies... Well, who knew...:noidea:

If we wanna keep a minumum of 10 entries (which I think is a good minumum) then we might wanna make a maximum of 2 entries per person instead of the single entry. In that instance, should a Masters Cut thread turn out to be a little slow, then some enthusiasts of that particular cut might get a second crack at it without the thread dragging on for months.... and I don't think it will disenfranchise potential entrants. They still have until the end of the week in which the 10th entry comes up, so they've got plenty of notice.

Cheers!

Bill

I also don't like the idea of multiple entries (unless someone is foolish enough to go for multiple zeros or DQs). I think a better idea is for Chris to use his mod powers. If he doesn't get enough participants in, say, three weeks, he simply sends PMs out to 10 Brethren and orders them to participate. If they don't comply within the week then they get an automatic DQ on their next throwdown entry and Death. It's only fair.

Translation for Chris:

I and don' t (for someone to go because many zero DQs, sufficiently likes the thought of foolish is not) plural entries. I because of the crith to which a better thought uses that mod power think of that is. Him doesn' t obtains the sufficient authorized personnel of 3 weeks, he forwards PMs simply in 10 same traders, orders those in order to join. Them don' You follow t within week, then they the entry item of their following throwdown and obtain the automatic operation DQ of death. It' s fairness simply.

 

[Will work for bbq]

Do DQ'd entries count towards the 10??
If yes I would gladly do some Bacon in a crock pot to help the Zombie TD along, I can go for a Dilly Bar.

 

[bigabyte]

(I) Gore thank you, that was thought through brevity, very. I have the limitless power of the thing which really is the regulator which rank you have known whether and finally brandishing/scattering thought it loves DQ where dearly, I am good! I without mercy distribute the many dilly sticks. I make abnormal strength and the troop of fight of size. We crush the person who gives many pauses by removing the false position of desire and strength to inserting ardently the oral series of master with the feather of all pitches! That is very complete!

 

[Gore]

Master thank you, it is kind and broad-minded. I bend in your intelligence and power. As for me there is your order.

 

[landarc]

Now you two make sense