Brisket Question for Judges?

[Big Sticky]

This is a simple but great question. Love all the opinions.

 

[bover]

As a judge, I have to agree with the statement of taking off the fat. It's just not appetizing or visually appealing on this particular cut of meat.

As a cook however, the real question is whether to remove the fat before or after you cook it. That's a whole different debate, but without a doubt get rid of it at some point.

 

[ModelMaker]

Left on, but do have to respectfully disagree with MM.



100% disagree. Is it the same as having a bad injection mark that isn't visible on the first (and only) seen slice? Should it NOT "bother" the score? Not at all trying to call you out, and YES, I totally agree it should not "bother" the score..

Technically speaking, seeing the fat that separated the point/flat and/or a rogue injection should not cause judges to score down on taste/tenderness. IMHO, I 100% believe it will, even when it shouldn't.

If Judges (especially 2-6) see a large line of fat on the bottom and/or a rogue injection mark after scoring appearance, your day is done in the brisket category. Even if a judge is supposed to score on taste/tenderness, I believe that visual display affects the mind's palate of judges 2-6 after judge 1 has taken his sample.

Well your certainly entiteled to your HO but if your still judging the samples appearance after it hits your plate IMHO you are judging incorrectly. After you enter your score for appearance that part of judging that sample is complete. If the cook sneaks in a ugly chunk 3 slices back it has NO bearing on taste and tenderness scores...
Have you never looked at the bottom side of a pretty chicken thigh only to find some folded up less than appealing wad of skin?
And by the way, I do sample the line of fat if presented that way, and score accordingly. The question was what do judges think of fat cap left on the samples in the box.
All in all I fight dearly not to judge according to my personal tastes and dislikes. The cook puts it in the box and I try to judge it that way.
Ed

 

[Crash]

Well your certainly entiteled to your HO but if your still judging the samples appearance after it hits your plate IMHO you are judging incorrectly. After you enter your score for appearance that part of judging that sample is complete. If the cook sneaks in a ugly chunk 3 slices back it has NO bearing on taste and tenderness scores...
Have you never looked at the bottom side of a pretty chicken thigh only to find some folded up less than appealing wad of skin?
And by the way, I do sample the line of fat if presented that way, and score accordingly. The question was what do judges think of fat cap left on the samples in the box.
All in all I fight dearly not to judge according to my personal tastes and dislikes. The cook puts it in the box and I try to judge it that way.
Ed

I couldnt agree more and I thank you for being one of a handful of judges that truely judges brisket based on the three individual criteria.

Unfortunatley, not all judges are able to do this.

 

[Mister Bob]

While judges are trained to judge each of the three categories independently, and we all try to do so (I hope), I can't help but believe that each category effects the other even if subconsciously, and even if only a little.

When competing, I have found that the better my presentation scores are, the better my taste and tenderness scores are, even though I'm using the same recipes, meat sources and processes. There could be several reasons for this, like it landed on a high scoring table, or I just happened to get a good tasting chicken, cow or pig, or I drank a little less that day and was on the top of my game, BUT...

There's a saying, "You eat with your eyes first". If something looks unappealing, subconsciously you might be predisposed to think it tastes unappealing. Conversely, if it looks great you might subconsciously believe it tastes a little better.

I also believe taste and tenderness are similarly intertwined. While perfectly tender meat could taste terrible, it would be very difficult for a tough piece of meat to 'taste' a nine. Taste is a subjective term that includes flavor, aroma, personal preference, mouth feel and many other things. If it chews like leather, it would be extremely difficult for even outstanding flavor to fight through the judges unpleasant experience.

People are not computers. Try as you may to keep things fair and keep each category separate, your subconscious might not cooperate.

Just sayin'...

 

[ModelMaker]

"People are not computers. Try as you may to keep things fair and keep each category separate, your subconscious might not cooperate"

I think that is a plus for human judges, given a set of parameters a machine would always generate the same outcome. Being human I can force myself to ignore that piece of pork that was a little mushy but has fantastic flavor.
Trust me you want the subconsious to be able to be controled.
Ed

 

[Bentley]

While perfectly tender meat could taste terrible, it would be very difficult for a tough piece of meat to 'taste' a nine.

I would have to disagree with you. More then once I have given a 6 for tenderness and a 9 for taste and vice versa!

 

[Mister Bob]

Being human I can force myself to ignore that piece of pork that was a little mushy but has fantastic flavor.
Trust me you want the subconsious to be able to be controled.
Ed

I'll have to disagree. By the very nature and definition of the word subconscious, it cannot be controlled or influenced by conscious thought.

Here's what Merriam Webster has to say:

sub·con·scious adj \ˌsəb-ˈkän(t)-shəs, ˈsəb-\
: existing in the mind but not immediately available to consciousness <a subconscious motive>
— sub·con·scious·ly adverb
— sub·con·scious·ness noun

Being human, your subconscious can influence you conscious thoughts, but not the other way around. We might want it to be otherwise, but it just isn't so.

 

[HONCHO GREGORY]

try cookin two at the same time, 1 fat on and one fat off. cook for yourself not for the judges, if you win great, if you don't you still have good bbq you like to eat

 

[garyk1398]

I recently became a CBJ and the instructor said the same words as Bentley "You are to eat the meat and judge as it is presented".

If the team is putting a slice of brisket with fat in the box, I'm assuming that's what me to judge and I'll eat it. Do I want to? No, not really, but that is what was given to me.