Brisket and Chicken Boxes - Opinions Please

[Jacked UP BBQ]

9's all day in appearance. The brisket box is perfect. If you re talking about last weekend. We had very inconsistent scoring as well. Our brisket box scores went as follows 999, 999, 667, 989, 989, 877. I just want to meet the guy who gave us a 6 on appearance and ask him what he is looking for!

 

[Yakfishingfool]

This is coming from a human being acting as a judge.

Briz is a 9 (no matter what I've seen that day)
Chicken is a 9 unless I've seen some awesome boxes prior to yours, in which case I would mark it an 8.

Again...I know this isn't how judges are told to score, but we know that as humans we are flawed and have our own "unwritten rules".

You got a raw deal, brother!

Every box is judge no matter what you have seen. This is not a cpmetition of my chicken to yours, this is a competition of is my chicken the best you have ever seen eaten or whatever. You never, ever, judge ne box to another. When you finsihed the last box, erase the entry and move on. If the last box was all 9's and my box is all 9's then so be it. DO NOT JUDGE BOX AGAINST BOX!!

This weekend we had 8 pieces out of a brisket, right in a row, 9 plus, and one judge fives. They ar ehumans and some of them stink. low scores get droped and that eliminates that kind of handicapped judge. Scott

 

[carlyle]

Interesting thread. Thanks for bringing this to the Brethren for your good and ours.

Lots of good comments previously.

No one but the judge knows what goes on in their minds.

If the KCBS system is working as intended, the table captain should have seen the spread of scores and brought it to the reps attention, or the rep should have seen it.
Hopefully the rep would have talked to the judges whose score was inconsistent with the rest of the table. Or there should be talk among the judges at each table after scores are turned in. One of these ways should make the judge aware that they are not consistent with the rest of the table. Maybe there was a good reason, maybe not.

That won't help the score that was turned in, but should help with the education for that judge.

Demanding comment cards for low scores is a two edged sword. It can result in constructive comments back to the cook. It can also set an artificial floor in the scoring system - as in - don't give any 6's cause you have to do a card.

KCBS appears to be addressing this concern with plans for ongoing or refresher classes for CBJ's and the new software they are planning has the capability to track judges scoring. All of this aimed at improving the system.

Time will tell if they implement what they are talking about. Time will tell if it makes any difference in the problems.

I do take issue with the idea of diluting the CBJ pool with contests over 50.
Our contest has been close to 50 but not over. This year I started taking judge applications in January, 6 months from contest. By early February there were over 70 applications. Now I have over 90 applications from 6 states and Canada.

So I say IMO, that the judge pool in the upper midwest is robust with dedicated judges who are willing to travel long distances for no pay to judge contests.

Maybe other regions of the country are different.

As a CBJ, the boxes in the pictures are solid 8's and 9's for appearance.

 

[ModelMaker]

In reference to the second chicken, Judge #1 obviously kows what a good score is (9,8) so I'm guessing he got a bite that was truely unpleasent. Judge 4 (8,6,6)is just a low scorer. The rest are just normal.
I think all your boxes rate between a 8.5 and 9, your doing it right, just got a couple less than perfect tables.
Continue on.
Ed

 

[Alexa RnQ]

Demanding comment cards for low scores is a two edged sword. It can result in constructive comments back to the cook. It can also set an artificial floor in the scoring system - as in - don't give any 6's cause you have to do a card.

Which is why I advocate for mandatory cards for 5 or below. If that entry has an attribute that makes it below average, it should be easily articulated.

If anything, a judge who thinks that way will then give a 6, which is perfectly sufficient to knock an entry out of contention.

 

[ModelMaker]

This is coming from a human being acting as a judge.

Briz is a 9 (no matter what I've seen that day)
Chicken is a 9 unless I've seen some awesome boxes prior to yours, in which case I would mark it an 8.

Again...I know this isn't how judges are told to score, but we know that as humans we are flawed and have our own "unwritten rules".

You got a raw deal, brother!

You sir are as big a problem as any stupid judge I've ever encountered.
You do not understand the concept of judging as layed out by KCBS.
If you are not willing to follow the rules as taught you should stop judging immediatly and never judge again.
Ed

 

[Lion Bout The Q]

I've gone from a 173 to a 141 the next contest. I felt the chicken in the second contest was better than the previous. Needless to say we were scratching our heads.[/QUOT

Yeah , its had to imagine 20 or 30 points difference . especially in chicken that I feel I can cook the same most consistanly every time.

This guys brisket boxs are 9's for sure. Looks great. Chicken a strong 8 IMHO

 

[Full Draw BBQ]

Both of those boxes are 9's in my book as well. We have left a contest scratching our heads after not getting a call in say chicken, when we took 4th in chicken the year before with the exact same chicken....or even what we felt was better! ya just never know when human beings with opinions are in the mix.

 

[paydabill]

I feel your pain last wek at a contest - we did very well in everything except chicken, it killed us. I was very upset when I saw all the scores putting me in the 888 range except for two - 944 and 866. I did not get a comment card on either one.

I checked the chicken they were all above 180 temp, and they were all treated the same way. Just goes to show you, you never know!

 

[fishinchef]

Finney can relate to this thread, last week @ Kings Mtn, he got 2 comment cards, 1 for great brisket, the other for poor brisket

 

[Big Stogie]

I agree!!!

 

[rookiedad]

i might have missed if this was covered or not but what was the CBJ percentage at each contest?

 

[slowerlowerbbq]

i might have missed if this was covered or not but what was the CBJ percentage at each contest?

According to KCBS, the most recent contest was 100%. But it was a large contest and I can vouch for the scoring being all over the place

 

[Alexa RnQ]

There's a great deal of practical difference between "100% CBJ" and 100% experienced CBJs.
Anyplace that can throw a class shortly before a contest can claim 100% CBJ, and the result will be just as wonky as if they'd pulled random members of the public in off the street and given them some instruction.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Unfortunately I can't taste over the Interweb, I certainly wish I could because both your brisket and chicken sound and look delicious. This CBJ would give 9's for appearance. Nice job.

 

[Fat Woody]

Ch!t happens man - last year at a KC area comp we cooked what I thought was the best pork I've ever made. Scored 62nd out of 65 teams. Cooking next door to us was a rookie team doing there first comp that finished 63rd overall, but their pork came in 16th (chicken 56th, ribs 61st, brisket 65th). Any chance that our turn ins got mixed up? Maybe, but we'll never know.

Hopefully your post will generate more interest in accurate scoring, but judging is an imperfect science at best, so don't let it eat away at you. Obviously you know what you're doing, so file it away under strange scores and move on - it's not worth losing sleep over.