KCBS Juding and Ways to Improve It

[slat]

The contest I have judged this year aren't allowing you to take anything home. This doesn't bother me at all. I think it will weed out those who are looking for a free take home meal. That should help with the scores some.

 

[bbqbull]

I would like to say here is.............When I took Paul Kirks Class a few years ago, we had non-certified judges. Paul did his best to educate the folks who did the judging.

Me and my partner took 4 out of 5 ribbions. Ok, no biggie here as I definately dont need or want the ego attitude thing at all.

We did our best, and I gave all our ribbons to my partner.

The left over food was consumed by a bunch of my friends at a batchelor party.
They said, it was the best bbq they had ever tasted in their lives.

When I cooked 2 yrs ago at Grand Rapids, Michigan.........they brought a bunch of......celeberty judges. TV weather reporters, ect...... Well that just made me happier than a felon on death row.

I learned that you can cook really chitty Q, sauce the hell outta it, and your a winner. Does that mean that saucing food makes you a champ? Not im my book.

KCBS really needs to make sure all.......and I mean all judges, have cooked in a competion several times, and then taken a certified judging class, before they are allowed to judge any competition.

Hell anybody and everybody knows that ya add sugar to your bowl of Cheerios and milk, and you have a tasty ingredient, called breakfast.

Thats why I have stopped totally in the competitions. Have cancelled my KCBS subscription.

I find no solace in my mind of trying to produce good Q, for competitions. I try and do that without saucing my food w/sauces and or honey. I have one hell of a killer doctored sauce, that im sure would really boost my chances at comps. But being a stubborn kinda guy, I wont use it. My Q stands on its own merits per my friends and neighbors, but not them fill in, uneducated judges.

Im sure I could way overcook food, sauce the hell out of it, and maybe , just maybe get some great scores.

IMHO, the judging system needs a total overhaul.

Rant over, And now..............Im gonna shut the fark up!

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

The contest I have judged this year aren't allowing you to take anything home. This doesn't bother me at all. I think it will weed out those who are looking for a free take home meal. That should help with the scores some.

THIS is my pet peeve out of all things associated with BBQ contests (that and quiet hours not being enforced). IMO, leave the coolers out of the judging area. If it makes some judges decide not to judge the contest, that's fine by me. It just shows what is important to that judge... collecting meat to take home rather than give us fair scores. Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out! The looks I got from some other judges at Harrisonville when I threw my left overs in the trash after each round of judging just chapped my rear end.

 

[bbqbull]

Jeff, are you and Slat willing to run for the BOD of KCBS?

Maybe we could see some serious improvments in judging at future contests?

Just asking here, If I lived closer, I would be willing to put my ass on the line to improve things. You know that, cause im a no bull**** kinda guy.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Jeff, are you and Slat willing to run for the BOD of KCBS?

Maybe we could see some serious improvments in judging at future contests?

Just asking here, If I lived closer, I would be willing to put my ass on the line to improve things. You know that, cause im a no bull**** kinda guy.

I considered it til I heard a few stories. :lol: Honestly, my time is spread thin as it is with all I have going on. At this point in my life, I think my wife would walk away if I took on something else that time consuming. And I won't do anything like that if I can't do it right. Just don't think time would allow me do do it like I'd want to or like KCBS members would deserve me to do it. But thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

[bbqbull]

You rock in my book Brother!

Just thought I would ask?

Dont muck up your home life by taking on more little projects Jeff, trust me on this one.

Family is first and foremost IMHO!

 

[KC_Bobby]

When I cooked 2 yrs ago at Grand Rapids, Michigan.........they brought a bunch of......celeberty judges. TV weather reporters, ect...... Well that just made me happier than a felon on death row.

I learned that you can cook really chitty Q, sauce the hell outta it, and your a winner. Does that mean that saucing food makes you a champ? Not im my book.

I wonder if this is what happened to our pork.

411th of the 461 who turned in pork (might as well have been dead last)
J1 - 25.7142
J2 - 31.4286
J3 - 19.4284
J4 - 25.7142
J5 - 24.0000
J6 - 30.8572
Total - 137.7142​

Three of us (all CBJ's) were excited with the taste and tenderness of the pork. I took the butt apart muscle by muscle with relative ease and turned in about 1" square chunks, each piece could be shreaded nicely and keep its texture. We really wanted the pork to highlight thetaste and didn't give it much sauce. The sauce was a mix of natural juices from inside the wrap and some Blues Hog. We lightly spread this throughout the pork turn in box. Based on the numbers above, it looks like I got two 7's, three 5's, and a 4 for taste (and likely about the same for tenderness). I'm starting to think adding more sauce would have increased my scores as well as overcooking it.

But, I'll never really know. I'd really like to know what the top and bottom scored judges liked/disliked with it.

 

[KC_Bobby]

The looks I got from some other judges at Harrisonville when I threw my left overs in the trash after each round of judging just chapped my rear end.

I did take some of mine home from this contest but not for the purpose of solely eating. I took the remaining parts of the turn ins that I liked for the purpose to give them another taste and look. Well by the time they got cold and reheated some didn't taste as good but it did give me an idea of some other things - like thickness of brisket slices, chicken color, etc.

Which brings up ... if judges can't take pics, maybe they should be able to take it home either.

 

[TOPS BBQ]

BBQBull wrote: "I learned that you can cook really chitty Q, sauce the hell outta it, and your a winner. Does that mean that saucing food makes you a champ? Not im my book."

I could write a book about my discontent of using sauce. Unfortunately, I want to win, so I am playing the game of sauce. I created my own and saw my scores go way up. They didn't go through the roof only because I choose not to make it sweet. It was mentioned earlier that walk-in judges look for commercial BBQ. It takes a lot to keep from strangling people who ask me why my rib meat is not falling off the bone.

Regarding the judges cooking with a team: Who decides which team a judge cooks with? I wouldn't mind a judge joining me (through a whole cook) because I tend to stick burners. What would their duties pertain to?

I honestly do not believe that we will be able to change much. But I ask my Brethren Brothers to talk to anyone whom passes by and educate them as to what competition BBQ is all about.

 

[Bill-Chicago]

THIS is my pet peeve out of all things associated with BBQ contests (that and quiet hours not being enforced). IMO, leave the coolers out of the judging area. If it makes some judges decide not to judge the contest, that's fine by me. It just shows what is important to that judge... collecting meat to take home rather than give us fair scores. Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out! The looks I got from some other judges at Harrisonville when I threw my left overs in the trash after each round of judging just chapped my rear end.

I bring my cooler to every event I've judged.

Its a compliment to get your ribs into my cooler.

If it tastes like chit, it goes in the trash.

I'm only judging one bite or two of an entry, not a whole farking piece.

What difference does it make whether it goes in the cooler or in the trash.

you should strive to cook good enough to make it into the cooler.

everything else is chit.

The fragile flower agrees.

 

[Roo-B-Q'N]

Regarding the judges cooking with a team: Who decides which team a judge cooks with? I wouldn't mind a judge joining me (through a whole cook) because I tend to stick burners. What would their duties pertain to?

I honestly do not believe that we will be able to change much. But I ask my Brethren Brothers to talk to anyone whom passes by and educate them as to what competition BBQ is all about.

I would say if so many teams want to change teh way judges see their Q they would be more than happy to have a judge cook with them. I have had backyarders ask to come cook a contest and afterwards say they didn't know what really went into a contest.

So if you want to change anything, it starts with education and education starts in the pits. Duties at a comp are the same as yours and the judge assigned to you would stay up all night, sleep in the chairs if possible, get his or hands dirty, check temps, create the boxes and run the boxes.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

I bring my cooler to every event I've judged.

Its a compliment to get your ribs into my cooler.

If it tastes like chit, it goes in the trash.

I'm only judging one bite or two of an entry, not a whole farking piece.

What difference does it make whether it goes in the cooler or in the trash.

you should strive to cook good enough to make it into the cooler.

everything else is chit.

The fragile flower agrees.

I already stated what difference it makes. People collecting BBQ to take home for another free meal, which I think is gross anyway.

 

[butts a fire]

We have been down this road before but I will go ahead and add my .02. As a competitor and having never judged a contest I cannot comment as to the extra time it would take for a judge to give feedback but I would welcome any useful comment that I got from a judge. I think an improvement in that area would help a lot of the bad feeling that some competitors have towards the judging system. Most of us would agree that if we got a 4 from a judge and they said the piece of meat was dry than at least you have some justification for the score and could more easily accept it.

I do not think that the KCBS needs to scrap the current system I believe that it does work as is evident by the consistancy of some teams and my own inconsistancy, I can also tell by looking over my past scores that I am improving and am getting more consistant if the judging wasn't working I would not be able to see this and would win one time and finish last another with the same product instead I am running around the middle of the pack in most of the catagories and am slowly moving up as I turn out a better product.

 

[Transformer BBQ]

... I am a cook, an organizer and a judge. I judged both the AR Invitational, Open sides (all three categories), open desserts, and the all of the Open meats.

...

... I will use your brisket example. I was talking with two guys and one said he prefferd his brisket cut thinner than the standard number 2 pencil as laid out by KCBS the other guy said he liked his much thicker than the # 2 Pencil.

Just wondering where the #2 pencil rule is laid out by KCBS?

 

[StLouQue]

I certainly appreciate all of the views expressed in this thread.

I'm a brand-new CBJ. As soon as my number arrives in the mail, I'll be out there judging. I've been cooking backyard barbecue for only a little over four years, and to date, have never competed. Let me state that I would appreciate the opportunity to cook with any team at a (relatively) local contest in order to broaden my experience with and appreciation of competition barbecue. If your team needs an extra pair of hands, email me in advance. If no scheduling conflict exists, I can afford the trip and have time to arrange for someone to care of my dogs while I'm away, I'll be there.

The competition stipulation for attaining Master CBJ status has changed? Really? As I understood Mike Lake's description (10/4) that requirement was still in place.

As for saucing, I will judge each piece on its own merit – sauced or not. However, any time I taste barbecue, my preference is for dry. I like to sample the meat in an unadulterated state, doing so tells me more about the cook's (or cooks') experience and talent.

Years ago in elementary school, I read a biography of Hall of Famer Willie Mays. At one point he and teammate, Willie McCovey were locked in a seesaw race for the batting title. As I recall, McCovey came out on top at season's end. Mays was asked by a reporter for his reaction to coming in second. His response was essentially, "If I can't beat the best, I don't deserve to be the best." Obviously, those classy words of wisdom stuck with me.

 

[StLouQue]

Just wondering where the #2 pencil rule is laid out by KCBS?

I don't believe it is a rule, but rather a standard that many follow for consistency. I'm pretty sure you are free to slice anyway you choose.

 

[billm]

I cook and judge..
I dont see how taking leftover turn ins in a cooler will affect a judges judging either way..
I personally dont keep the food i judge but to each thier own..I could care less form a cook or judges standpoint as long as they judge the food accordingly
I do care that if their are leftovers in the box after judging that the table captains and volunteers at least get some samples though

 

[Jorge]

When you guys have this sorted out I need some help with another idea. I have this idea for a thing that is round, and rolls. I'm thinking of calling it....THE WHEEL!

 

[DawgPhan]

Just wondering where the #2 pencil rule is laid out by KCBS?

the same place bite through chicken skin is...

 

[Sawdustguy]

This thing about having to sauce to win is a bunch of farking bull$hit. At a contest you are cooking for the judges and if they like sauce you will do better. If you can't face up to the fact that you are cooking for people that don't like their Que the same way you do, quit competing and bitching about. Competition isn't about what you like or what your neighbors like or what you friends like, it's about what the judges like. Lets face the farking facts and deal in reality, the judges are human, CBJ or not and they all have their personal likes and dislikes. It's childish to cry over the fact that most judges like their Que sauced. It's moronically obvious, that when you used sauce your scores went up. If a judge likes a rib sauced and he gets a rib that has rub only, which one do you think will get the higher mark? Put yourself in their place. If you had two ribs, one sauced and one not and you liked non sauced ribs, which one do you think you would give the higher mark. The moral of the story is that at a contest, you are cooking for the judges. It doesn't matter how good your friends or neighbors think your Que is. I also think Chris from Ique has a very good point on what really wins contests. Chris wins alot and I think he has some of the best advice on what it takes to win.

Lotta Bull and Pellet Envy don't win because of their rub and sauce selections. They win because the can consistently cook all four meats perfectly. Perfectly cooked meat wins contests not rubs or sauces.

__________________
Chris, iQue
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