In his case, I'd normally let it go....but I have to be nice to him so that he will consider bringing me some Harpoon
In his case, I'd normally let it go....but I have to be nice to him so that he will consider bringing me some Harpoon
Scottie
Quintessential Chatty Farker
I don't need to suck up to him that bad... As I got a bunch still left from Lake Placid... I've now got the bargaining chip though. As he turned the the NEBites on to Italian Beef's... :roll:
BRBBQ
Babbling Farker
I've said it before, all contest judges should be certified. I've judged a few contest and if they don't have enough judges to judge, they just find people off the street, no class training or prior experience, this isn't fair to the cooks. I don't compete but personally I wish the garnish was removed from comps, it's just a waste of food and money. It looks great but a waste.... BBQSMYBFF did you see the Bobby Flay BBQ competion throw down? He's a master/culinary chef and he got his butt kicked twice by authenic BBQ cooks, Bobby tried to bring flavor to his food, but authenic bbq flavor won. I guess he should be ticked being a culinary chef and all.
Podge
is Blowin Smoke!
The difference between you and me is that I'm a crybaby woman THAT WINS.
Giddy Up !!!:mrgreen:
B
BBQSMYBFF
Guest
i have and i have spoken with butch and he kicked his butt!! lol hahah
it is just a lottery.. i understand it totally just saying how i felt and everyone got twisted. lol hahah
but your right.. get rid of the garnish.. and sauce. lol haha
Transformer BBQ
is one Smokin' Farker
what is a lottery?
G
GaryT1
Guest
I sure know what your talking about! Sometimes the people the contests get to judge are not very bright. Organizers at our last one even admitted it and are going to correct next year.
One thing we did on our team was to BECOME Judges and try to judge a contest each year. This way you get to taste the winners stuff and how it may differ from yours. It may be not that good to you but at least you know what they are looking for.
If you watched the olympic gymnastics over the past week, the "professional" judges really screwed up. So I am not totally convinced that this is the total answer. Our feelings are that if there is a variance of 2 points between judges at a table, then there needs to be a conference had and the issue resolved. Someone would have to lower or raise the score based on mediation.
Anyway just a thought.
GaryT1
One thing we did on our team was to BECOME Judges and try to judge a contest each year. This way you get to taste the winners stuff and how it may differ from yours. It may be not that good to you but at least you know what they are looking for.
If you watched the olympic gymnastics over the past week, the "professional" judges really screwed up. So I am not totally convinced that this is the total answer. Our feelings are that if there is a variance of 2 points between judges at a table, then there needs to be a conference had and the issue resolved. Someone would have to lower or raise the score based on mediation.
Anyway just a thought.
GaryT1
L
Lakeside Smoker
Guest
I've been keeping my mouth shut for 2 days...but, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
So, if you do good, it's just luck?
I've been competing for just over 3 years. The first year and a half I sucked. My friends and family said I was good, but the judges told me I sucked. Ya know what? I listened to the judges...now I'm better (except at Harpoon). Instead of blaming people, I looked in the mirror, and practiced every chance I got. Chicken has been our week point for the past 2 years. I Think I cooked chicken every day over last winter. This year our chicken is MUCH better. I guess I just got lucky.
My Dad has a great saying: "the harder I work, the luckier I get."
Mike
B
BBQSMYBFF
Guest
WHY DOES EVERYONE TAKE THIS SO PERSONAL.... if i win i am happy.. if i lose i am happy.. it doesnt matter and i dont give a rats behind.. what i am saying is that the judging has to be up to par.. not for me..not for my team.. for everyone.. i saw some inconsistent numbers on a lot of peoples sheets and it made me sick.. look at the post by muzzle brake..
how do you say raw tuna is not tender?? PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT ONE...
tuna is good.. there are a grade, b grade, and then low grade.. there is no differ in tenderness except for some can get mushy.. it doesnt make sense..
my point is not saying that the constant winners are lucky.. but it is a lottery of judges hoping you get the right ones and people who are decently knowledgable about bbq or food for that matter... if you have never eaten good food than you can not consitantly judge a bbq contest.. and it is the people who can not get out of their minds that each food is individual is the problem..
like a judge stated on here earlier.. if he got a nice spicy chicken and he loved spicy he could judge it a 9.. but if it didnt taste good even though it was spicy and he likes that it is not right he give it a good score.. but if it was really good and spicy and he loved it it got a 9.. not the lady next to him and bites into a blazing chicken and goes damn that chit is spicy and i hate spicy and gives it a 6.. that is pathetic and doesnt deserve to judge..
by NO MEANS AM I SAYING THAT ANYONE HEAR IS LUCKY AT WINNING AND I AM SURE ALL YOUR BBQ AND MEAT IS AWESOME.. YOU ARE ALL READING WHAT I AM WRITING WRONG..
i am saying that there needs to be more consitancy in judging and is has to be done.. if there is no way to do it than fine..
but one again i say.. there is no such thing as standard bbq.. so if you all want to poke fun at a wasabi glaze go right ahead.. but dont knock it until you tried it...
THINK ABOUT IT THIS WAY FOR EVERYONE.. AND I KNOW EVERYONE HAS DEALT WITH THIS..
EVER GO TO A COMPETITION AND COOK YOUR RIBS AWESOME AND TAKE FIRST PLACE AND KNOW THEY TASTED AWESOME!?!? I THINK SOME OF US HAVE.. AND THEN YOU GO THE NEXT COMP AND YOU COME IN DEAD LAST WITH THE SAME MEAT, SAME SAUCE, SAME RUB, AND SAME EVERYTHING.. EVEN THE BEST HAS THIS HAPPEN TO THEM.. EXPLAIN THAT ONE PLEASE.. IT IS ALL THE JUDGES..
P
Papa Hogg
Guest
Maybe we could get Tony Soprano to be the mediator :roll:
I like to think of BBQ as art & not everyone has the same taste in art, I personally like Terry Redlin, one of my sisters is not so fond of his work. I personally like my BBQ spicier & a little off the norm, so this is what I do at home, but when I cook at a KCBS event I adhere to that style & I have done ok so far, when I tried to be a little different I did not do so well.
But I do not blame the judges when I don't score well...I shrug it off & look forward to getting together with friends & cooking again.
But to actually want to see people be forced to change their scores because they were different from the other judges :roll: and I thought this was America.
If after reading everyone's responses here and your still not getting it, by all means...please go ahead and continue to compete and use your Wasabi glaze.....I'll be the one waving to you from the stage.......
Why do you think, that so many people, with so much more experience in competition BBQ are telling you that you are way off base?
Your comparison breaks down at this point... Olympic judges are juding one performance. KCBS judges are juding six different pieces of meat from one cook. If your product isn't consistent I can understand a judge's score being off by more than a couple of points.
Now if one KCBS judge is consistently scoring well outside of the norm, then there is an issue.
Sledneck
Full Fledged Farker
Lottery eh? Hmmmmmmm The Mega millions jackpot is now $95 million. SO then a team lets just sau I smell smoke shouldnt even bother competing this coming weekend at New Holland. They are so damn lucky all of the time that winning the Jackpot should be a sure thing!
L
Lakeside Smoker
Guest
clearly
Scottie
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Steve is going to get a complex.... I wonder if he can just order a case of those hats? :roll:
Sledneck
Full Fledged Farker
hehehe
Solidkick
somebody shut me the fark up.
BBQSMYBFF
Dude.....it all begins with you......consistent product, consistent flavor profile......
I'm not bragging, just giving you the facts.......the last 10 competitions that I've competed in.......seven 1sts in brisket, one 2nd in brisket, one 10th in brisket, one out of the top 10 because I changed a process that kept my product from being consistent, and I knew it was not right for a good placing......the contests were contests that were 100% certified judges, a mix of ceritfied and celebrity judges, and some that had all celebrity judges.
I did not hit 9 lucky tables.....the odds just don't back it up........
Take the judging class........and work on your skills...........
Dude.....it all begins with you......consistent product, consistent flavor profile......
I'm not bragging, just giving you the facts.......the last 10 competitions that I've competed in.......seven 1sts in brisket, one 2nd in brisket, one 10th in brisket, one out of the top 10 because I changed a process that kept my product from being consistent, and I knew it was not right for a good placing......the contests were contests that were 100% certified judges, a mix of ceritfied and celebrity judges, and some that had all celebrity judges.
I did not hit 9 lucky tables.....the odds just don't back it up........
Take the judging class........and work on your skills...........
BBQSMYBFF heres your cattle call.
Vinnie, I believe I met you and your brother at Yardly outside Big Barrys tent. We had a brief discussion on your sauces and i offered my opinions on the 'crazy stuff"... which is in line with the opinion presented to you here. But after going back and reading your cattle call, I'd like to make a few suggestions and point out a few things.
Its not often I have a fit, but I'm gonna step in because you just thru a blanket over my forum, its membership, KCBS and the judging pool by saying we are like everyone else with nothing better to do :icon_pissed.. Heres a reality check addressing some of the things in this thread.
1 - Get certified as a judge. Go to the class and learn what the baselines are that your required to cook to for a KCBS Contest. .. it will help you understand what the judges are looking for and stop blaming them. It will help you understand that crazy sauces and deviating too far from the the norm is detrimental. Right now, your comments and accusations seem like nothing more than a disgruntled and inexperienced competitor. We are all aware of the risk of inconsistencies in judging, we accept it and even expect it. But there is this small hole in the center of the BBQ Universe that if you find it, you will consistently score higher than your peers. It is no longer luck, or a good table of judges you land on, but it is YOUR product that is just that good, you may not get all 9's, but u wont get 2 6's that will drag u down. The system WORKS.
2 - Get out of your head that getting a check makes you a pro. Your NOT, I'm not and 99.8% of us here ARE NOT. We are hobbiests, we are enthusiasts, and some even are pitmasters, but we(you included) are NOT Professional Pitmasters or BBQchefs. I don't care how much CIA or culinary experience you have. 2-3 contests and a walk does NOT qualify anyone as a pro on this circuit. Mike Davis, Ray Lampe, Rod Gray, Johnny Trigg.. etc.. they make their living doing BBQ. They have years and years and YEARS of experience and cook more in 8 months than some of us would do in a lifetime. We are the weekend warriors, they are the pitmasters and the folks who will hand us our heads with their eyes closed and a bag of lump. Teams Like I-que, I smell smoke, Cancer sucks, etc..., they are climbing that ladder rung by rung and paying their dues. Its the guys of THAT caliber that qualify as the "PROFESSIONALS". Look up the credentials of Great Grills of Fire, The boys form Tornado Alley, Munching Hogs at the Hilton, Quau, to name a few. But to beat your chest because you got a paycheck is loading yourself into the cannon of disappointment. Slow down, and learn from those around you, or you will be humbled in the blink of a eye. I'm heading to the the American Royal Invitational and possible The Jack this year, and honestly I'm scared chit of what I'm up against and I have been cooking BBQ for 25 years. There are REAL PROS out there.
After 25 years of cooking BBQ and 4 years competing in about 20 contests(4-5 a year), I have a table of trophies, a got bunch of checks.. but I will NEVER claim to be a PROFESSIONAL. I am still learning from the members here and on the circuit, and I respect the opinions and advice of those that offer it. Especially those that know better than I. I won't dismiss their advice and fight for my right to deviate. I take the advice and decide if I want to use it and win, or conversely, try to change the game.
3 - Dump the sour grapes. Use this forum for what its here for. TO LEARN. Face it, you are in a place many of us have been. Your coming off a high from a previous contest and you get your clock cleaned at the next. Been there done that. It's the nature of the beast, and until you accept that, you will be bitter or confused after every contest that you don't take a walk in. If you can not accept the game for what it is, then find another game. Keep this in mind, A GC in an open/backyard/grilling event IS JUDGED UNDER SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS THAN A KCBS CHAMPIONSHIP. Your cattle call states you take pride in crazy sauces and unique products. By all means do that, and learn form the results, but don't chastize the judges because they dont like the product. Experiment in the open events and you may do well, but push the envelope to far to either side in the KCBS event, and you will have a rude awakening. As I stated before, there are expectations in the judges tent. If you choose to ignore those expectations and experiment with the judges, you can not blame anyone but yourself for poor scores.
Face it. Judges will NEVER all agree. The KCBS system drops the low score and weighs the rest. One of my last contests I had 4-8-9-9-9-9... in appearance. WTF?.. I laughed and moved on. It is part of our sport.
4 - Look down this thread and read the names of some of those that have offered advice. Ignore those that threw back the jabs, the moderators will scrub them out again. But their are ALOT of people who have alot.. and I mean many YEARS more experience than you, and they are trying to explain how things work on the KCBS circuit, yet it seems you are fighting it and not accepting things for what they are. You have your opinions and expectations of what this sport should be. We here, are trying to help you understand what IT IS. They do not and will not match up. Everyone who has ever competed was pissed at the judging pool at one tim eor another, but to make blanket statements with disregard to those around you who know better is not going to help you improve. And worse, it's not going to make people around you want to help you to improve.
i apologize if this rant comes across harsh, but at the stage of the thread, the bad Karma being seeded and the constant jabs being thrown, its time to either accept it for what it is, or add it to your ignore list.
Vinnie, I believe I met you and your brother at Yardly outside Big Barrys tent. We had a brief discussion on your sauces and i offered my opinions on the 'crazy stuff"... which is in line with the opinion presented to you here. But after going back and reading your cattle call, I'd like to make a few suggestions and point out a few things.
Its not often I have a fit, but I'm gonna step in because you just thru a blanket over my forum, its membership, KCBS and the judging pool by saying we are like everyone else with nothing better to do :icon_pissed.. Heres a reality check addressing some of the things in this thread.
1 - Get certified as a judge. Go to the class and learn what the baselines are that your required to cook to for a KCBS Contest. .. it will help you understand what the judges are looking for and stop blaming them. It will help you understand that crazy sauces and deviating too far from the the norm is detrimental. Right now, your comments and accusations seem like nothing more than a disgruntled and inexperienced competitor. We are all aware of the risk of inconsistencies in judging, we accept it and even expect it. But there is this small hole in the center of the BBQ Universe that if you find it, you will consistently score higher than your peers. It is no longer luck, or a good table of judges you land on, but it is YOUR product that is just that good, you may not get all 9's, but u wont get 2 6's that will drag u down. The system WORKS.
2 - Get out of your head that getting a check makes you a pro. Your NOT, I'm not and 99.8% of us here ARE NOT. We are hobbiests, we are enthusiasts, and some even are pitmasters, but we(you included) are NOT Professional Pitmasters or BBQchefs. I don't care how much CIA or culinary experience you have. 2-3 contests and a walk does NOT qualify anyone as a pro on this circuit. Mike Davis, Ray Lampe, Rod Gray, Johnny Trigg.. etc.. they make their living doing BBQ. They have years and years and YEARS of experience and cook more in 8 months than some of us would do in a lifetime. We are the weekend warriors, they are the pitmasters and the folks who will hand us our heads with their eyes closed and a bag of lump. Teams Like I-que, I smell smoke, Cancer sucks, etc..., they are climbing that ladder rung by rung and paying their dues. Its the guys of THAT caliber that qualify as the "PROFESSIONALS". Look up the credentials of Great Grills of Fire, The boys form Tornado Alley, Munching Hogs at the Hilton, Quau, to name a few. But to beat your chest because you got a paycheck is loading yourself into the cannon of disappointment. Slow down, and learn from those around you, or you will be humbled in the blink of a eye. I'm heading to the the American Royal Invitational and possible The Jack this year, and honestly I'm scared chit of what I'm up against and I have been cooking BBQ for 25 years. There are REAL PROS out there.
After 25 years of cooking BBQ and 4 years competing in about 20 contests(4-5 a year), I have a table of trophies, a got bunch of checks.. but I will NEVER claim to be a PROFESSIONAL. I am still learning from the members here and on the circuit, and I respect the opinions and advice of those that offer it. Especially those that know better than I. I won't dismiss their advice and fight for my right to deviate. I take the advice and decide if I want to use it and win, or conversely, try to change the game.
3 - Dump the sour grapes. Use this forum for what its here for. TO LEARN. Face it, you are in a place many of us have been. Your coming off a high from a previous contest and you get your clock cleaned at the next. Been there done that. It's the nature of the beast, and until you accept that, you will be bitter or confused after every contest that you don't take a walk in. If you can not accept the game for what it is, then find another game. Keep this in mind, A GC in an open/backyard/grilling event IS JUDGED UNDER SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS THAN A KCBS CHAMPIONSHIP. Your cattle call states you take pride in crazy sauces and unique products. By all means do that, and learn form the results, but don't chastize the judges because they dont like the product. Experiment in the open events and you may do well, but push the envelope to far to either side in the KCBS event, and you will have a rude awakening. As I stated before, there are expectations in the judges tent. If you choose to ignore those expectations and experiment with the judges, you can not blame anyone but yourself for poor scores.
Face it. Judges will NEVER all agree. The KCBS system drops the low score and weighs the rest. One of my last contests I had 4-8-9-9-9-9... in appearance
. WTF?.. I laughed and moved on. It is part of our sport. 4 - Look down this thread and read the names of some of those that have offered advice. Ignore those that threw back the jabs, the moderators will scrub them out again. But their are ALOT of people who have alot.. and I mean many YEARS more experience than you, and they are trying to explain how things work on the KCBS circuit, yet it seems you are fighting it and not accepting things for what they are. You have your opinions and expectations of what this sport should be. We here, are trying to help you understand what IT IS. They do not and will not match up. Everyone who has ever competed was pissed at the judging pool at one tim eor another, but to make blanket statements with disregard to those around you who know better is not going to help you improve. And worse, it's not going to make people around you want to help you to improve.
i apologize if this rant comes across harsh, but at the stage of the thread, the bad Karma being seeded and the constant jabs being thrown, its time to either accept it for what it is, or add it to your ignore list.
