roksmith
is one Smokin' Farker
PID controllers are awesome.. I've been using one to control my pellet smoker for almost a year now...NOTHING is more accurate 
Sammy_Shuford
is Blowin Smoke!
R
righteousdog
Guest
just one small unit
480V 3 Phase 400 AMPS Controls 4 zones per cavity, 2 cavities per tool, 2 tools, 268,800 Watts. About $10,000 for the hardware (some used)
Designed it, AutoCad'd the panel layout and wiring diagram, built it, programmed it... guess that's why the pay me the big bucks
I see I still have some holes to fill. All the fun stuff and then they stick me with a crappy used holy panel.
6 heaters per zone = 24 per cavity. 3 phase = 3 Solid State Relays per zone. 48 SSR's total.
PLC that runs the show. Multiconductor cables are the incoming thermocouples. 16 total.
kinda puts ANY smoker controller to shame :becky:
R
righteousdog
Guest
contemplated, but they are way over rated @ 50A running a 12A load each. Oddly it was just as cost effective and physical size appropriate as the next closet choice and more readily avaiable. We cleaned out the U.S. supply chain and had to wait for them Europeans to get back from their month off to manufacture more.
Plus it not finned aluminum but look at the sq inches of that backplane. They don't even get warm...that's my heat sink and I'm stickin' to it.
And yeah, they got heat sink compound goo'd - mostly on me
thx tho :thumb:
smokindave74
Knows what a fatty is.
Built my homebrew
Thanks for Righteousdog for the info he provided. I basically built the same setup he has, right down to the same fan and PID. I still need to wire in my fan with some better wire, but basically it was pretty simple.
www.Auberins.com has a nice manual to get this thing programmed. Easy as programming a VCR.
I have a question for righteousdog, however. I have my fan blowing through my ball valve assembly. Do you choke down the intake at all?? Seems to me like that 10.6 cfm blower has plenty of kick. I am worried about ash flying everywhere.
Was thinking about putting a fan speed control in there, and bringing her down to 6-7 volts. In the meantime I am just going to choke down the intake, although it does make that fan whine a little from the backpressure and cavitation.
Regarding the project box from Auberins.com, the one for the PID i used (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=24) is pretty tight. I made a power cable jack to reduce the wires coming out, and it barely fits inside. I think putting the 5A SSR would be a stretch with the extra wires, etc. I just hope my contactor relay lasts for a while.
Smokindave
Thanks for Righteousdog for the info he provided. I basically built the same setup he has, right down to the same fan and PID. I still need to wire in my fan with some better wire, but basically it was pretty simple.
www.Auberins.com has a nice manual to get this thing programmed. Easy as programming a VCR.
I have a question for righteousdog, however. I have my fan blowing through my ball valve assembly. Do you choke down the intake at all?? Seems to me like that 10.6 cfm blower has plenty of kick. I am worried about ash flying everywhere.
Was thinking about putting a fan speed control in there, and bringing her down to 6-7 volts. In the meantime I am just going to choke down the intake, although it does make that fan whine a little from the backpressure and cavitation.
Regarding the project box from Auberins.com, the one for the PID i used (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=24) is pretty tight. I made a power cable jack to reduce the wires coming out, and it barely fits inside. I think putting the 5A SSR would be a stretch with the extra wires, etc. I just hope my contactor relay lasts for a while.
Smokindave
R
righteousdog
Guest
you're welcome. i unsoldered the short OEM leads and put on a longer cable.
i run my ball valve at about 25%. have no problems with flying ash. my intakes are below the fuel grate so it's not blowing directly at it. i would trial your unit before worrying about speed control.
choking down fan exhaust = increase in static pressure = decrease in flow. (remember, realistically this is not a ginormous hemi powered fan)
i did test a 5cfm axial fan but don't feel it had a sufficient flow and/or static pressure rating. the tornado series is more what is commonly used.
my power/fan cable is a multiconductor (y split terminated with DC coaxial connectors) and the thermo-cable all come out thru the case grommet. "breakout style" no "jacks on the box"
i would not be to concerned about the contactor. it's not listed in the spec sheet but the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) ratings for these type of devices is typically in the hundreds of thousands of cycles and it's switching jack squat of a load...you do the math
SmokeOCD
is one Smokin' Farker
@rabeb25 - you got details you can share on your brew rig? That's much nicer than the rat's nest I have just to control 1 pump and one element.
(PM, website, or blog is fine - these other guys probably aren't interested)
(PM, website, or blog is fine - these other guys probably aren't interested)
brewski
Got Wood.
Righteousdog,
Thanks for the post! I have had a controller for a few months and looking for a fan. I ordered one like yours and with a wall wart I will power it with no problem. Do you have a pic of the fan discharge showing the adapter you came up with. I'm thinking I my simply make a plate to fasten to the fan and use a EMT connector on each end of conduit.
Nice job:thumb:
Thanks for the post! I have had a controller for a few months and looking for a fan. I ordered one like yours and with a wall wart I will power it with no problem. Do you have a pic of the fan discharge showing the adapter you came up with. I'm thinking I my simply make a plate to fasten to the fan and use a EMT connector on each end of conduit.
Nice job:thumb:
R
righteousdog
Guest
thx
details:
the button head drill-tap is the hardest part. as noted, if you didn't care about removing the fan from the adapter for whatever reason, you could just jb weld or 2 part epoxy it on. not to open another can of worms, but remember whatever sealant you use is "in contact" with the air into your food...and then there's the galvanized EMT to deal with...oh crap i guess i better scrap this...
:roll:
top view. i'm about as good (and patient) with caulk as i am painting. since it's only a $12 fan and my time i was more concerned with function over form for the prototype. the EMT slides into a 1" set screw connector which threads into my gate valve on the UDS for removal as noted and shown in previous post.
the concept behind NOT having a flapper is this: you choke your intake down below where you would normally run, essentially starving the draft somewhat. the blower will makeup this difference doing what a closed loop PID should do and modulating the fan (draft). undoubtedly, this will take some dialing in based on your smokers attributes, PID settings, and ambient conditions.
i've also had questions on blocking the exhaust. current draw actually decreases when blocked because the fan basically cavitates due to it's low static pressure rating.
from previous post i just have a length of stainless braided TC cable with the mating connector on it to plug into unit, then stripped and twisted the wires (dissimilar metals) together to form the junction for the grate temp - no "probe" is needed. if/when it gets funky, just strip it back a little and do-over.
you could also get fancy and butt splice it, or land it in or off of an alligator clip (just make sure to twist wires to form a good junction).
if you followed the diagram in the user manual, you don't really need to label the 2 female DC receps - it won't work if you have it wrong (no power), and because of the way it's wired you can't damage it (back feeding a normally open relay contact). only nuisance with this simple setup is no on-off for the fan. unplug it (or less preferred close intake) when opening the lid - or add a switch.
as others have said, that is one T-I-N-Y box. auberins (and other) sells other size units and enclosures, but i went for nano size and construction frustration.
to be honest, this thing is sooo lightweight you have to be careful it doesn't get pulled off a shelf or whatever if not held somewhat. my main goal of the project was a 12V low power DC unit i could take camp'ing or comp'ing.
runs great off a generic wal-wart and a 7AH lead acid should easily go a session, although i haven't personally tested or calculated that at this time.
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stglide
Knows what a fatty is.
20% off at Auber
Auber is running a 20% off sale online... I picked up the SYL-1613SYS-10CFM Barrel Smoker kit for $133 bucks.... figured worth a try, and with all the parts, would be a good start until I can get me a Guru!
Auber is running a 20% off sale online... I picked up the SYL-1613SYS-10CFM Barrel Smoker kit for $133 bucks.... figured worth a try, and with all the parts, would be a good start until I can get me a Guru!
smokindave74
Knows what a fatty is.
Excellent post, Righteousdog. Nice photos, and really nice explanation.
I managed to fit all my wires and jack inside the box. I think next time I will replicate with the break-out style you used though.
I did a test cook over the weekend, and it worked pretty well. I did get some oscillations, but I think part of it was due to my TC probe getting dripped on with meat juice, and the location I had it mounted.
You brought up tuning, which is a question i had. Have you tinkered with the settings that Auberins has in their manual? Basically P=1.2 ot=10, I=300, d=70, and SouF=0.7.
I ran with this, and it worked decently. But I still had quite a bit of droop, and some overshoot. Some of this was fuel related maybe.....I suspect clogged ash in my firebox. Temp dropped and dropped, I was about 10-15 degrees south of my set point of 230F. Then it came on full force because I was outside the P Band. It started cycling as it came up to temp, but then it overshot by 10-15 degrees. It didn't do this every time, but I did notice it on several occasions in the 12 hour cook.
I am wondering if I increase my P by .5 or so, if that will help this out. Still trying to learn about the I & D, and the damping and how to tune these. I would just try some more trials, but it takes a long time to trial a cooker like this and watch the slow oscillations.
I managed to fit all my wires and jack inside the box. I think next time I will replicate with the break-out style you used though.
I did a test cook over the weekend, and it worked pretty well. I did get some oscillations, but I think part of it was due to my TC probe getting dripped on with meat juice, and the location I had it mounted.
You brought up tuning, which is a question i had. Have you tinkered with the settings that Auberins has in their manual? Basically P=1.2 ot=10, I=300, d=70, and SouF=0.7.
I ran with this, and it worked decently. But I still had quite a bit of droop, and some overshoot. Some of this was fuel related maybe.....I suspect clogged ash in my firebox. Temp dropped and dropped, I was about 10-15 degrees south of my set point of 230F. Then it came on full force because I was outside the P Band. It started cycling as it came up to temp, but then it overshot by 10-15 degrees. It didn't do this every time, but I did notice it on several occasions in the 12 hour cook.
I am wondering if I increase my P by .5 or so, if that will help this out. Still trying to learn about the I & D, and the damping and how to tune these. I would just try some more trials, but it takes a long time to trial a cooker like this and watch the slow oscillations.
TedW
is One Chatty Farker
Great thread. I'm also following the HeaterMeter development over on the Webber forum. Since I'm not an engineer or electronics saavy person, a home build isn't likely for me. Though I have a solder gun.
I like the idea of customizing and building exactly what I want, however. Also going with heavy duty components
So does limit me to off the shelf units like Guru / Stoker?
I like the idea of customizing and building exactly what I want, however. Also going with heavy duty components
So does limit me to off the shelf units like Guru / Stoker?
smokindave74
Knows what a fatty is.
thx
details:
the button head drill-tap is the hardest part. as noted, if you didn't care about removing the fan from the adapter for whatever reason, you could just jb weld or 2 part epoxy it on. not to open another can of worms, but remember whatever sealant you use is "in contact" with the air into your food...and then there's the galvanized EMT to deal with...oh crap i guess i better scrap this...
:roll:
top view. i'm about as good (and patient) with caulk as i am painting. since it's only a $12 fan and my time i was more concerned with function over form for the prototype. the EMT slides into a 1" set screw connector which threads into my gate valve on the UDS for removal as noted and shown in previous post.
the concept behind NOT having a flapper is this: you choke your intake down below where you would normally run, essentially starving the draft somewhat. the blower will makeup this difference doing what a closed loop PID should do and modulating the fan (draft). undoubtedly, this will take some dialing in based on your smokers attributes, PID settings, and ambient conditions.
I did a similar mount as this. I smashed the conduit until it fit without any measurable force. Then I just drilled some holes to match a couple smaller 1/2" long sheet metal screws I had. I just tapped the housing and pipe with a sacrificial screw of the same size. Seemed to work okay. After I got the screws to fit, I removed them and dremel-tool'd off the protruding ends of the screws and put them back in.
Once I RTV'd the gaps, it is rock solid.
Once again, Thank You Righteousdog! Your design is simple and it works great. :thumb::clap2:
Also worth noting, is that I had to put a reducer on my setscrew connector, because I have 3/4" ball-valve on my UDS. This makes it stick out farther, but there is no heat transfer to the fan or condiut. So, I think the galvanized conduit or the housing sealant are a non-issue. High temp RTV is probably overkill for my setup, but it all costs the same anyway, for the pretty red color or not.
Smokindave74
P
PORQY
Guest
Let's see a pic. I'd love to see that.
smokindave74
Knows what a fatty is.
It's easy TedW. Especially with this thread as a guide. I like to tinker with things, so I saw it as a small challenge to myself. But it really is pretty easy. The electronics end of it is minimal, if you use screw connectors and keep it simple. The hardest part was mounting the 1" electrical conduit into the fan housing, and that only took a vice, a hammer and drilling a couple small holes. The rest was a piece of cake. Instruction manual with the controller is straight forward.
The biggest downer for me of this whole thing was the shipping costs from Auberins.com and Newark, for the fan. All of the parts only totaled about $70-$80, but the shipping was over $17. Auberins is in Georgia, not sure why it costs $12.00 to ship it.
TedW
is One Chatty Farker
http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9270072103/m/5341028906
You've seen this?
I have a full shop so I can build / modify a lot. I just have no programming experience. I've built electronic things before but only with a manual with step-by-step instructions. So this intimidates me
You've seen this?
I have a full shop so I can build / modify a lot. I just have no programming experience. I've built electronic things before but only with a manual with step-by-step instructions. So this intimidates me
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R
righteousdog
Guest
yup. looked that project over as well as stoker and guru before i decided i wanted something simpler.
mayb someday, but it's not on my immediate plate...
TedW
is One Chatty Farker
To sum, your system is a similar concept without the remote info / internet?
smokindave74
Knows what a fatty is.
Correct. Righteousdog's is a little neater than mine with his wiring, but it is basically a 12 volt power supply, a PID controller (simple), and a DC blower fan. No real programming required. The PID controller from auberins.com (see link on above posts) is about as simple as it gets. Total cost of my build was about $90 plus shipping. If you have elec. conduit and wiring laying around, it would be less.
