Solidkick
somebody shut me the fark up.
kcquer said:
We're back.......give me some time to get my thoughts together, i'll post a little later, I goota post it from a word doc I started on the laptop on the way home........
The Belly Brothers Do Charleston MO. (updated AND Pictures)
- Thread starter Solidkick
- Start date
We're back.......give me some time to get my thoughts together, i'll post a little later, I goota post it from a word doc I started on the laptop on the way home........
Solidkick
somebody shut me the fark up.
Belly Brothers Do Charleston
Running with the Big Dogs was a little tougher than we could have ever imagined. Though we were definitely on our “A Game” it didn’t prove to be enough. Timing of the turn ins and prep couldn’t have been better. Cooking to competition level standards was a different story. Not that we cooked bad food, we didn’t cook bland enough, or sweet enough. 63 of 64 teams showed up. Turns out that of the 63 teams there, 41 of the teams had won state or grand championships and/or lotto drawings to the AR Invitational in 2004. So if you take those teams out of the mix, we made top ten. We place 47th overall.
It seems 10,000-prize money brings out the cream of the crop, plus we learned for those that compete on a regular basis that this event had triple points for overall yearend KCBS champ.
First event, chicken. This was a great improvement from our last event. 20th place, top 1/3rd. We all figured this was good indication for pleasant things to come. In fact, we all felt we had a very good chance of hitting top 1/3rd or better in everything else. Then, the hammer fell!
Next event, ribs. Did everything to KCBS standards, nice smoke ring, slight tug at the bone, not too sweet……throw that theory out the window! Personal preference takes the place of what judges are taught in this category for sure. We were so excited about our ribs…………the judges weren’t………..63rd place. You talk about a shock…………turns out the judges like them to fall off the bone, cooked in honey and brown sugar during the wrapped portion of the 3-2-1, with a slight glaze of a sweet BBQ sauce just before turn in. We could have done that, had we known. In fact, we had fall off the bone ribs and elected not to turn them in because of the way we thought the judges would score them. What really hurt…………the guy next to us cooked everything except his chicken on Friday, wrapped it and coolered, then reheated it Saturday morning, his warmed up ribs beat us…. that was a bitter pill to swallow. Oh well, let’s move on… We can still bring it home with the butt and brisket.
Pork, I think 39th…still scratching our heads…….no way……it was almost as good as it gets………did it the same way as the BoCo fair, where we took a 3rd. Ha! Not the same playing field……..reality starting to sink in.
Brisket, gonna knock ‘em dead in this one for sure. Good smoke ring, good flavor, and very tender .27th place. This one really doesn’t make sense…….one judge gives us 9-9-9, the judge right next to this judge, 9-5-5.
What!! One says it’s perfect and one says it’s below average in tenderness and taste! Who trained these judges!!
Did we have fun, hell yes! Did we do a good job, we sure thought so. Are we ready to take on the name teams and big events, not quite. We made a few new friends, saw some old friends, but the “elite” on millionaire’s row, (most of the top names somehow seemed to be grouped together in the campground, thus the name) reminded me of the old high school clicks of the rich and spoiled, don’t bother me, type attitude people. After what I saw this weekend, I was disappointed with their actions. I can’t speak for my brothers, but it kind of left a bitter taste in my mouth about what KCBS is all about.
I think we'll stay local and leave the big fish alone for awhile.
Chad and Tim, we really gave it our best, it is hard to break into an established group. I applaude you for trying, just as we did. Maybe someday............
Running with the Big Dogs was a little tougher than we could have ever imagined. Though we were definitely on our “A Game” it didn’t prove to be enough. Timing of the turn ins and prep couldn’t have been better. Cooking to competition level standards was a different story. Not that we cooked bad food, we didn’t cook bland enough, or sweet enough. 63 of 64 teams showed up. Turns out that of the 63 teams there, 41 of the teams had won state or grand championships and/or lotto drawings to the AR Invitational in 2004. So if you take those teams out of the mix, we made top ten. We place 47th overall.
It seems 10,000-prize money brings out the cream of the crop, plus we learned for those that compete on a regular basis that this event had triple points for overall yearend KCBS champ.
First event, chicken. This was a great improvement from our last event. 20th place, top 1/3rd. We all figured this was good indication for pleasant things to come. In fact, we all felt we had a very good chance of hitting top 1/3rd or better in everything else. Then, the hammer fell!
Next event, ribs. Did everything to KCBS standards, nice smoke ring, slight tug at the bone, not too sweet……throw that theory out the window! Personal preference takes the place of what judges are taught in this category for sure. We were so excited about our ribs…………the judges weren’t………..63rd place. You talk about a shock…………turns out the judges like them to fall off the bone, cooked in honey and brown sugar during the wrapped portion of the 3-2-1, with a slight glaze of a sweet BBQ sauce just before turn in. We could have done that, had we known. In fact, we had fall off the bone ribs and elected not to turn them in because of the way we thought the judges would score them. What really hurt…………the guy next to us cooked everything except his chicken on Friday, wrapped it and coolered, then reheated it Saturday morning, his warmed up ribs beat us…. that was a bitter pill to swallow. Oh well, let’s move on… We can still bring it home with the butt and brisket.
Pork, I think 39th…still scratching our heads…….no way……it was almost as good as it gets………did it the same way as the BoCo fair, where we took a 3rd. Ha! Not the same playing field……..reality starting to sink in.
Brisket, gonna knock ‘em dead in this one for sure. Good smoke ring, good flavor, and very tender .27th place. This one really doesn’t make sense…….one judge gives us 9-9-9, the judge right next to this judge, 9-5-5.
What!! One says it’s perfect and one says it’s below average in tenderness and taste! Who trained these judges!!
Did we have fun, hell yes! Did we do a good job, we sure thought so. Are we ready to take on the name teams and big events, not quite. We made a few new friends, saw some old friends, but the “elite” on millionaire’s row, (most of the top names somehow seemed to be grouped together in the campground, thus the name) reminded me of the old high school clicks of the rich and spoiled, don’t bother me, type attitude people. After what I saw this weekend, I was disappointed with their actions. I can’t speak for my brothers, but it kind of left a bitter taste in my mouth about what KCBS is all about.
I think we'll stay local and leave the big fish alone for awhile.
Chad and Tim, we really gave it our best, it is hard to break into an established group. I applaude you for trying, just as we did. Maybe someday............
icemn62
Babbling Farker
It sounds like you guys cooked quality Que, had a good time, and got a lesson in life. It is not what you know, If you know someone at the top. Did you get any pics? Seems that the judging is not quite as black and white as I thought. If you had turned in Que you make for home use, there would be trophies in your saga.
Remember, you got to cook, and had a good time. Met some new BBQ People.
Remember, you got to cook, and had a good time. Met some new BBQ People.
Solidkick
somebody shut me the fark up.
Yep, got a few pictures, will add later......I only slept 2 hours Thursday night due to being too excited, and 1.5 hours Friday night due to a sinus headache and my cooking shift. I just finished spending time with my grand daughters, which I needed, so i'm off to bed and will post more later, including pics. Many many more stories to be added by myself and the Bellys.
A special THANKS to Mike (BBII's cousin) for being an excellent pitbitch. Also spent time with Slat, good to meet him and visit.....more to follow, I need sleep!
A special THANKS to Mike (BBII's cousin) for being an excellent pitbitch. Also spent time with Slat, good to meet him and visit.....more to follow, I need sleep!
chad
somebody shut me the fark up.
Amazing what you learn while getting your ass kicked, isn't it? Believe me, Tim and I understand completely!
Ice, it ain't who you know - it really is blind judging. You gotta pay your dues and learn what is expected at THAT contest. Regional preferences, local que, etc. all come into play. With this many teams you had a lot of judges - what one table scored has no connection with the next table.
But hey, if this was easy EVERYONE would be doing it!
Kick, you sound like Tim and me when we talk about the FBA!!
We haven't figured it out - but we're much more at peace than we were last year. We've competed against a good number of the teams you saw. They do the FL circuit during the winter! We've been consistent but unfortunately our consistent is middle of the pack overall.We're thinking about doing Dillard, GA, a KCBS contest, in August. It'll be way up in north GA, so the Carolina style of doing 'que will come into play. We'll be learning to cook in a another new area.
Kevin, HomeBBQ, went up and took GC last year and he's planning to defend - he'll have Clara with him this year so things should go pretty smooth. Tim and I are debating but will probably go if we can get the $$$ together.
This stuff is frustrating but like the Maryland Lottery used to say "You gotta play to win!"
Hang tough. Do a post mortem over the next few days. Try and be real objective - and that will be hard to do. Pony up the $$$ and try it again.
C
Chick'n Pig BBQ
Guest
Glad you all made it back!!
Sounds like you all had fun and turned in realy good stuff. Don't be too hard on yourself, you all are great cookers.
I became a certified KCBS judge a couple of weeks ago and found out that as a judge you are taught to judge on how that 1 piece of meat tastes to you on its own merit and not be compared to any other . What I observed is that almost all the people who are judges are not cookers and have not read the KCBS rule book nor do they have any idea how its done.
At the class I attended it was very obvious that the majority of people really didn't understand what it was that was being asked of them. It seemed that thay could not get past comparing and judged too harshly on details that did not matter. You would not have believed the inconsistency on judging scores on the same pieces of meat?????? from 2 to 9
So I have decided that at Marshall (My first contest)I am going to turn in what I think tastes good to me and my family, following the KCBS rules and not what anyone else tries to tell me to turn in. After all who knows what the judges that day are going to like ( spicy,sweet or too tender) and also it makes a big difference on what the KCBS rep emphasized the most about how to judge that specific day before judging starts.
Sounds like you all had fun and turned in realy good stuff. Don't be too hard on yourself, you all are great cookers.
I became a certified KCBS judge a couple of weeks ago and found out that as a judge you are taught to judge on how that 1 piece of meat tastes to you on its own merit and not be compared to any other . What I observed is that almost all the people who are judges are not cookers and have not read the KCBS rule book nor do they have any idea how its done.
At the class I attended it was very obvious that the majority of people really didn't understand what it was that was being asked of them. It seemed that thay could not get past comparing and judged too harshly on details that did not matter. You would not have believed the inconsistency on judging scores on the same pieces of meat?????? from 2 to 9
So I have decided that at Marshall (My first contest)I am going to turn in what I think tastes good to me and my family, following the KCBS rules and not what anyone else tries to tell me to turn in. After all who knows what the judges that day are going to like ( spicy,sweet or too tender) and also it makes a big difference on what the KCBS rep emphasized the most about how to judge that specific day before judging starts.
D
dxesmkr
Guest
Hey Kick,
I wouldn't sweat it.The most important thing you had a good time.Its hard to be competitive against teams that do contests every weekend.They are gonna have a advantage.They do stay in a close group cause they see each other every weekend and some of them do swap tips back and forth to make them more competitive.The best way to think of it is like Nascar.The big boys that run every week will finish better than the guys that can only run a few races.Its just experience. There's no doubt in my mind ya'll turned in good product.
I've found that turning in too tender is a whole lot better than even a little tough.My turn in ribs are so sweet you couldn't sit down and enjoy a whole rack.You gotta hitem with the flavor cause the judges are gonna take one bite.I'm all over the place with pork so don't feel bad.Sauce is the key right now in KCBS.Really more of how good the sauce tastes vs the meat.
There are alot of inexperinced judges out there.I know exactly how you feel about the 9's then all of the sudden outta nowhere a "2". "Some " judges think its just a free bbq lunch and have no idea what a team goes through. I'm not bashing the judges(I'm a KCBS certified judge) I'm just giving my opinion from observations.Nothing makes me madder than hearing a judge say"everything we had tasted awful". I say BS to that.
I say keep gettin' in there with the big boys.Cause when you win its so much sweeter.
Willy T.
www.willytsbbq.com
I wouldn't sweat it.The most important thing you had a good time.Its hard to be competitive against teams that do contests every weekend.They are gonna have a advantage.They do stay in a close group cause they see each other every weekend and some of them do swap tips back and forth to make them more competitive.The best way to think of it is like Nascar.The big boys that run every week will finish better than the guys that can only run a few races.Its just experience. There's no doubt in my mind ya'll turned in good product.
I've found that turning in too tender is a whole lot better than even a little tough.My turn in ribs are so sweet you couldn't sit down and enjoy a whole rack.You gotta hitem with the flavor cause the judges are gonna take one bite.I'm all over the place with pork so don't feel bad.Sauce is the key right now in KCBS.Really more of how good the sauce tastes vs the meat.
There are alot of inexperinced judges out there.I know exactly how you feel about the 9's then all of the sudden outta nowhere a "2". "Some " judges think its just a free bbq lunch and have no idea what a team goes through. I'm not bashing the judges(I'm a KCBS certified judge) I'm just giving my opinion from observations.Nothing makes me madder than hearing a judge say"everything we had tasted awful". I say BS to that.
I say keep gettin' in there with the big boys.Cause when you win its so much sweeter.
Willy T.
www.willytsbbq.com
S
slat
Guest
Kick glad you and the Bellybro's made it home safe. It was great to meet you guys and hang out for a while. The hospitality was as good as it gets. I thought you guys had it going on, but it just didn't work out for you all. At least a great time was had by all.
B
BrooklynQ
Guest
Chick-n-Pig-BBQ said:
IMHO, I think you have it nailed. Submit what you think is best. Also, send a rep from your team to the judges meeting. Hear what questions are asked and how they're answered. KCBS rules allow teams to listen in at the meetings - so take advantage. even tho it would be toolate to change your cooking, it will give you some insight on how you scored.
BellyBrotherII
Knows what a fatty is.
We did have FUN!, We Did learn a LOT! But most of all just knowing you guys are behind us made it all better. SLAT it was a pleasure to meet you and we enjoyed your company. Brothers, Like Kick said it was some tough compatition and when your in the heat of it just keep smokin. I learned fix what is the best for that region. Politics are involved to some extent, we did see this with our owne eyes and heard it with our owne ears. So now that we understand how to play the game, we are going to do more practice games, (Local Contest) before we go after the big ones.
Here are a few pics and Kick will be posting more. Kick feel free to move these if I have them in the wrong place.
(Moderator's comment--I resized these. Was careful, but it they are not accurate nor right in any way, let me know. I will fix. Learning new tricks MOD TIM)
Here are a few pics and Kick will be posting more. Kick feel free to move these if I have them in the wrong place.
(Moderator's comment--I resized these. Was careful, but it they are not accurate nor right in any way, let me know. I will fix. Learning new tricks MOD
TIM)
Solidkick
somebody shut me the fark up.
Did I have my "game face" on in the second picture on Friday afternoon or WHAT! Now you know why I didn't sleep! I was intense! LOL
Damn, we're pretty! Shoulda got first place just because of our looks! :mrgreen:
Damn, we're pretty! Shoulda got first place just because of our looks! :mrgreen:
IMO this is exactly what you all needed . One good swift reality check to keep your head in the game. You may not realize it right now, but this contest probably did more for you in a positive way than you think. This is what separates the Men from the Boys. Some teams will just give up after a contest like this while others will gain strength and knowledge and get back on that horse. I think you all will see a great change in your next contest. Maybe you can join us in Warsaw the 29th of this month.
Get back on your horse pilgrim.
Spice
Get back on your horse pilgrim.
Spice
BellyBros--
Reality Sucks--right :lol:
I read BRO KICK's post several times and kept getting flashbacks to Mobile in early March for Chad and I :twisted: :twisted:
When the "backyard" teams have 10 times the $$ invested in kookers and gear than you do--"uh-oh"
I am doing a long thread about judging Barnesville and all that I learned. When it is up--it will address some of your observations.
For now--let me just offer this.
Chad and I cook "Good" Que. Many times even "Great" Que. Sometimes we sneak in some "Crappy" Que just to see if anyone is looking (they are) :mrgreen:
But, until I started judging, I had not experienced "Championship" Que. For me-it just jumps off the table at you and screams "Here I am" :lol:
When ya play with the full time pros, they put out "Championship" Que week after week after week. And, they have been doing it for years :lol:
Hard act to follow :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Chad and I have found our "solace" by looking down the scoring sheet to see how many names we recognize that scored lower than us :lol: :lol: Gotta find comfort where you can.
Doing the judging thing has helped tremendously. Not just going to a class, but getting our hands dirty and getting to "pick the minds" of the other Judges we will be cooking for in the future.
Hang in there--it does take time, practice, patience, and "open mindedness" to break through!
TIM
Reality Sucks--right :lol:
I read BRO KICK's post several times and kept getting flashbacks to Mobile in early March for Chad and I :twisted: :twisted:
When the "backyard" teams have 10 times the $$ invested in kookers and gear than you do--"uh-oh"
I am doing a long thread about judging Barnesville and all that I learned. When it is up--it will address some of your observations.
For now--let me just offer this.
Chad and I cook "Good" Que. Many times even "Great" Que. Sometimes we sneak in some "Crappy" Que just to see if anyone is looking (they are) :mrgreen:
But, until I started judging, I had not experienced "Championship" Que. For me-it just jumps off the table at you and screams "Here I am" :lol:
When ya play with the full time pros, they put out "Championship" Que week after week after week. And, they have been doing it for years :lol:
Hard act to follow :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Chad and I have found our "solace" by looking down the scoring sheet to see how many names we recognize that scored lower than us :lol: :lol: Gotta find comfort where you can.
Doing the judging thing has helped tremendously. Not just going to a class, but getting our hands dirty and getting to "pick the minds" of the other Judges we will be cooking for in the future.
Hang in there--it does take time, practice, patience, and "open mindedness" to break through!
TIM
Solidkick
somebody shut me the fark up.
Mrs. Kick also entered the dessert competition on Friday evening. She got all 9s in presentation, but came up short in taste and tenderness. All the Bellys thought she had a winner for sure........She's not discouraged......she got some nice tips on how to improve the taste (ice cream) and she'll go after them again!
More vanilla????????????
Help us out- we all love the "secrets", even for desserts :lol:
Swear on "Scout's Honor" we will keep it a secret
Looks YUMMY to me. Great Job!
Note to PooBah--ya need to find some "Smell-a-Forum" and "Taste-a-Forum" software
TIM
Solidkick
somebody shut me the fark up.
Photos added to the photo gallery.............
http://www.bandera-brethren.com/mod...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
http://www.bandera-brethren.com/mod...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
KICK-Solidkick said:
Great Pics!!!!!
I really appreciate the captions. Makes it so easy to follow and informative :lol:
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TIM
B
BAG3
Guest
To hell with kicking some ass . . . . YOU SMOKED SOME!!!!!
Bellybro
is one Smokin' Farker
Sorry I haven't posted yet. I took Monday off as well to recover fromt the weekend.
GREAT TIME WAS HAD!
Slat great to meet you, and visit. Sorry we didn't get a chance to hook up again before we left.
Hey, we cooked great Q and I don't think we should drastically change a thing.
I think our Rib presentation was weak and probably cost us a higher score. My fault. I won't try that way again. Live and learn.
I am not discouraged at all. We will compete the again.
This is like showing up for a backyard game of football and find out the opposing team is the Patriots!
Spice is right a reality check doesn't hurt anyone.
THe smoker worked well, everyone on the team did an awesome job and we were better prpared and turned in better Q than last year at Boone County so I feel we improved and will keep on marching in that direction.
A bad day cooking is better that a great day at work!!!!
Judges preferences prevail and when you get a 999, and a 988 then a 755 or something by the rest of the judges at that table they are looking for two different things and that is the system we have and have to live with.
Thanks for all your support and words of encouragement!
NEXT!
GREAT TIME WAS HAD!
Slat great to meet you, and visit. Sorry we didn't get a chance to hook up again before we left.
Hey, we cooked great Q and I don't think we should drastically change a thing.
I think our Rib presentation was weak and probably cost us a higher score. My fault. I won't try that way again. Live and learn.
I am not discouraged at all. We will compete the again.
This is like showing up for a backyard game of football and find out the opposing team is the Patriots!
Spice is right a reality check doesn't hurt anyone.
THe smoker worked well, everyone on the team did an awesome job and we were better prpared and turned in better Q than last year at Boone County so I feel we improved and will keep on marching in that direction.
A bad day cooking is better that a great day at work!!!!
Judges preferences prevail and when you get a 999, and a 988 then a 755 or something by the rest of the judges at that table they are looking for two different things and that is the system we have and have to live with.
Thanks for all your support and words of encouragement!
NEXT!
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