Morals and the Jack

If their comp didn't qualify and mine did hell yes. It's to damn hard to get in to have somebody take your spot over an event that didn't qualify. Brethren or not you need to play by the rules.

If you are saying that some one is trying to use an event that shouldnt be a qualifier , I would question it . Remember you spent the money to earn your spot in the draw and if ya got beat out of it because some one slid thru on an event that shouldnt have been used you will be upset. Some where in the Brethren motife it should also apply to tryin to weasel your way in when it isnt right. .

I'll post an edit to mine. If the comp met all the requirements and the organizer screwed up the paperwork or something like that I would have a hard time with it. Its not the teams fault the organizer screwed up.

Tough call there. Thankfully we aren't good enough that I have to worry about that.

spill it.

wassup?

I'd ask that question privately, and then come to a decision. Now you've got a big audience.

I'd be damn sure there was an issue and then I'd raise hell for what's right!

We come to win not be cheated out of something...

If I were confident an event didn't qualify, before mentioning it to the Jack, I would mention it to the team that won it and see how they handle it. As a gentleman and a classy competitor, you owe that to the team in question. If they won't do anything about it and you're confident you are right, then at that point I think you can raise it with the Jack. But you need to be prepared to suffer the consequences of hurting your relationship with the team in question, the organizer of the event in question and members of the BBQ community in general. Justified or not, some people will not look kindly upon it.

Would I do it? I don't know. Before raising it with the other team I would want to be very sure that it's clear the event didn't qualify.

I don't think it should ever get to that point that you have to police your chances to get into a qualifier. That is the responsibility of the sanctioning body and the reps, or so you hope. And one has to believe that if you are aware of a situation, that you aren't the only one aware.

Who would you "mention" it to? The JD folks so they don't add the GC team into the state draw? I think I would want to know the exact circumstances you're referring to (I think I might), But, if the event didn't meet the rules to be a qualifier, then it doesn't qualify, and, SHOULD HAVE been known up front. If the organizer misrepresented their event (lied to the competitors) and it's not a qualifier, then it should have been mentioned by the reps at the end of the contest. It should probably still be "mentioned", but, that is a tough call. It could paint you as the bad guy for ratting out the other team, and the real a$$hole jerk (the organizer) gets off.

Teams being misled by a screwed up organizer is punishing the wrong person. The GC team goes away thinking they're at least in the draw, but, NO, they got screwed up the butt by a deceitful organizer. People do certain contest because they think - or are told by the organizer - it's Jack eligible.

I think the organizer should be punished by the sanctioning organization, probably KCBS in this instance. Banned from organizing for x number of years is all they can really do, but, at least it highlights who the true bad guy is.

If nothing else, after all is said and done come November (after the Jack is over), I would at least tell KCBS and request sanctions be levied against the organizer if they misrepresented their contest. If the reps turned a blind eye to an obvious misrepresentation, then they should be sanctioned as well. We work too hard to be unknowingly screwed over.

Just Smokin' Around said:

Teams being misled by a screwed up organizer is punishing the wrong person. The GC team goes away thinking they're at least in the draw, but, NO, they got screwed up the butt by a deceitful organizer. People do certain contest because they think - or are told by the organizer - it's Jack eligible.

I think the organizer should be punished by the sanctioning organization, probably KCBS in this instance. Banned from organizing for x number of years is all they can really do, but, at least it highlights who the true bad guy is.

Click to expand...

What about a situation where the organizer was clear up front that they might not hit 25 teams, or where there are 25 teams but one team doesn't get a category in on time? My understanding is that if you don't have 25 entries judged in all four categories (15 for a first year event), then the event doesn't qualify.

I understand what you are referring to, and if an organizer deliberately lies to competitors there should be sanctions, but I can easily see a situation where an event doesn't qualify due to no fault of the organizer.

White Dog BBQ said:

What about a situation where the organizer was clear up front that they might not hit 25 teams, or where there are 25 teams but one team doesn't get a category in on time? My understanding is that if you don't have 25 entries judged in all four categories (15 for a first year event), then the event doesn't qualify.

I understand what you are referring to, and if an organizer deliberately lies to competitors there should be sanctions, but I can easily see a situation where an event doesn't qualify due to no fault of the organizer.

Click to expand...

I would agree there are circumstances like this that would cause a contest to fail as a qualifier, and the organizer isn't to blame and shouldn't be held accountable. But, it should be noted at the contest so teams don't walk away thinking they are in the draw or have another team debating if they should say something. I think the organizer has to mail paperwork into the Jack after the contest. They shouldn't be mailing it if it doesn't qualify.

If it went down the way you mention, then at least the organizer was up front and I give them credit for that. I've done contests where it wasn't known if it would be a Jack qualifier or not because of the number of teams. I knew that going in. That why I said I would need to know the EXACT circumstances.

...Morals and the Jack...

as they say...it's clear as mud!

I think we have seen what a team will try to do to get in the Jack the last couple of years. Sorry, its insulting and disrespectful to me. If you have to cheat and lie to get in to a contest that you supposedly" respect, why disrespect it with those kind of actions?

White Dog BBQ said:

. . . or where there are 25 teams but one team doesn't get a category in on time?

Click to expand...

If a team turns in late (and it is accepted late) that team gets ones across the board. That rule was put in just to cover things like what White Dog mentioned above.

I think it is sad that this question even had to be asked...:mmph: This tells me someone dropped the ball big time. To answer your question...I would report ANY rule violation regardless of who benefits or get penalized from it...right is right and there is no gray area to it!

Claiming a contest that isn't a qualifier?
Oh, that's so 2010 and 2011.

I get so damn sick of shaded accusations and innuendoes from people on this forum. If you wish to accuse a competitor of wrong doing then sack up and name him or her and the contest in question, Scottie and Vince lend no credence to this post since they have hated Harry Soo for years and will never recognize what he is capable of doing. Have some balls, say what you mean or get the hell off the forum.

NUTZ

Ethics can be loosely defined as actions you would take if no one was looking.
Case in point. Last year we won the Sam's club event in Conroe, Texas. No govenor's proclamation designating it as a state championship. In August we received letters from both the Royal and The Jack congratulating us on the win, with applications to both contests. I sent an e-mail to each, graciously thanking them for the invite, but, informing them that unless the rules had changed, we had not won a qualifier. I received an e-mail from both, thanking me for being honest and wishing me good luck in the future. I would hate to think what the consequences would have been if I hadn't done the right thing.

I do not know the circumstances the OP is alluding to. But, I suggest that you do the right thing, whtever that might be.

Robert