Pro vs Amature contest

What do the rules for the back yard division state as far as what the definition of a "pro" or "amatuer" team is? Are "pro" team specifically disqualified from the back yard division contest? Did any body inform the contest reps?

It's a pretty lame thing to do but there are no rules against it.

Discussed here:

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124695&highlight=pro

To me, once ya cook Pro, leave the Amateur Div alone.
But, lots of different opinions and little, if any, guidance by the sanctioning bodies.

TIM

I know some orgs have a rule that states once you are "head cook" once than you can't go am, but say the head cooks sits out and the rest of the team uses all of the equipment and everything but the head cook is gone than they would be allowed.

I think that if an organizer has a sanctioned and unsantioned event in the same location, the same weekend, the same or different days, teams should not be allowed to cook both. Depends on the rules of the individual comp though.

dmp

This was a new organizer and I am sure that had a lot to do with it....

There's no officially defined delineation between pro and amateur. So it was up to the organizer to define it. If he did, and a team of seasoned veterans swooped in and stole the show, shame on them. If there were no rules defined, then its just a name to a contest. Pro to me means you make a living out of something, not a level of experience. Example, a team of 4 executive chefs from 5 star restaurants formed a BBQ team, never competed before, went out for the first time and placed... are they pro? Conversely a rookie team enters a "pro" contest and cleans up(know to happen), did they do wrong?

So the question remains... When does a team/cook become a "pro?"
First entry in a pro contest?
First GC in a pro contest?
First Call/Payout in a pro contest?
Whenever they want to say they are "professional"?
Very few of us make money on BBQ as a "profession"...

N

BBQchef33 said:

There's no officially defined delineation between pro and amateur. So it was up to the organizer to define it.

Click to expand...

That's it in a nut shell, at least for KCBS comps. If the organizer doesn't put any limits on who can enter the backyard comps then it's open season, rightly or wrongly. Keep in mind that most of the time the backyard or amateur contests aren't sanctioned by anyone - the organizer has to set the rules.

It is somewhat hard to define what officially makes team Pro. Might be fairly easy to say if a team has competed for years and won many (or any) GC's that they shouldn't even do backyard, but if it isn't against the rules then nothing that can be done if the organizer didn't stipulate who could sign up for Amateur.

I have no qualms about saying to anyone that in my rookie year we started out with a few backyard then did a few Pro and bounced back to backyard a few time that year then back to Pro. Some of the events we entered after our first few backyard simply didn't have a "backyard" division so to get experience we signed up for whatever we could. Heck in our first Pro event after getting calls in our first 2 backyard and doing well there we set a goal that almost everyone does, which is don't finish dead ass last. Well we finished dead freaking ass last and it blew. So then we did a few more backyard and finished with a few more pro.

So now to answer your question. I don't think it is wrong for what you are thinking if those were seasoned pro teams. I would feel the same. But depending how "seasoned" is where the "fine line" dancing discussion begins and will probably never end as there isn't a set of rules, only opinions. Though some events certainly do stipulate if you have ever competed in a Pro event no matter if you tanked and finished last, then you can't do backyard. But if the organizer doesn't stipulate then it is fair (fair being relative term) game.

Nordy posed very good questions about what makes a team a "Pro". But there could be even more criteria for defining Pro than even those. It would be interesting to see those questions in a Poll on the forum and see what a consensus might turn up. I'm guessing either way this discussion will be around "till the cows come home". Oh I said it :icon_blush:.

I don't care who competes in the backyard contests. Just put the backyard teams all together at the contest.

just out the "pros" so that the rest of us can make sure and mock them next time we see them for bottom feeding. they didnt break anything but man law. They probably toted their checks home in their purse.

I keep seeing the term "pro event" thrown out in the posts, so with that, what made those events "pro" ?

I have never seen an event advertised as "pro only". Yet i have seen "shadetree" where it was specified "first time competitors" or "once a year" competitors only.

So if i arrive at a contest and its full of weekend warriors is it then decided its amateur?

If a so called pro contest fills up with all first year or rookie teams and no veterans, what is it?

If an unlabled event attracts the jack and ar winners does that make it a different contest all of a sudden(not to me)

Maybe it was regional with the NE having little to no choices but when i started out competing i was going against ray lampe and adam perry lang. A contest was a contest was a contest.

I dont think anyone who considers competing and making the investment is going in without the ability to win. They already have the skills and only need to learn timing. If they can get timing down the "any given day" will set in and a first year amateur team can walk away with the gold.


So i guess unless the organizer states first time teams or once a year competitors or something specific, theres no dog in the fight and the contest is wide open.



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

BBQchef33 said:

I keep seeing the term "pro event" thrown out in the posts, so with that, what made those events "pro" ?

I have never seen an event advertised as "pro only". Yet i have seen "shadetree" where it was specified "first time competitors" or "once a year" competitors only.

So if i arrive at a contest and its full of weekend warriors is it then decided its amateur?

If a so called pro contest fills up with all first year or rookie teams and no veterans, what is it?

If an unlabled event attracts the jack and ar winners does that make it a different contest all of a sudden(not to me)

Maybe it was regional with the NE having little to no choices but when i started out competing i was going against ray lampe and adam perry lang. A contest was a contest was a contest.

I dont think anyone who considers competing and making the investment is going in without the ability to win. They already have the skills and only need to learn timing. If they can get timing down the "any given day" will set in and a first year amateur team can walk away with the gold.


So i guess unless the organizer states first time teams or once a year competitors or something specific, theres no dog in the fight and the contest is wide open.



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Click to expand...

most contests with both a sanctioned KCBS contest and an unsanctioned contest generally refer to the sanctioned as the "pro" event and the unsanctioned as the "backyard" or "amateur" event.

For example

http://www.hoghappenin.org/

which refers to "Pro" and "tailgate" events.

The tailgate entry fee is a fraction of the pro event and the prizes are much smaller. They even go so far as give free entry into next year's "pro" event to the winner of the tailgate contest.

Having a single unsanctioned event without saying who can enter is one thing. Having 2 contests on the same weekend where there are clear divisions is another.

I dont think that anyone broke any rules, I just want to know who they are so I can make fun of them.

I was at both events. I cooked for the Pro's event. My sister cooked the Amateurs using my stuff using her own techniques. She also cooked at Westmont in Amateurs. I was there to support her and drink some beer. I spend most of my time at the Kid's Que helping my son with his stuff. My wife was all so asked to help out with judging the kid's and Amateurs. I agree that Pro's shouldn't do both comps.

dmprantz said:

I think that if an organizer has a sanctioned and unsantioned event in the same location, the same weekend, the same or different days, teams should not be allowed to cook both. Depends on the rules of the individual comp though.

dmp

Click to expand...

I agree.

Define pro? kinda hard to. I cook every weekend for a local butcher and compete twice a year. Does that make me a pro? If I was competing at a contest and the likes of Myron, or Lily or any other big name pro was there, I'd be happy to go up against them just to see how I faired. Conversely, there's been plenty of comps where there's first year teams. They beat the "pros" quite often(beginners luck). Unless KCBS is going to create a "PRO" designation after you've won a gc, competed in X amount of comps. I see no reason why the pros can't cook with the little guys. If I wanted to do a "backyard" comp after 4 years of competing twice a year to just hone my skills and see how I did, am I going to be forbidden?

The last contest we were at which had a Backyard division there was a "backyard" team there with a huge cooksite.... MBN-style war wagon, complete with serving counters, huge hog cooker, fold-up awnings, etc. They also had at least one flat screen TV and 20? folding camp chairs embroidered with their team name. I think they probably had 100 friends and family come by over the 30 hour period.

They won the backyard contest.

Wow. They showed up with $20k worth of stuff and took a $500 check home.

Pigs on Fire said:

Wow. They showed up with $20k worth of stuff and took a $500 check home.

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Now that competition BBQ is getting a lot more press, you'll see more of this sort of thing. Truth is, sponsors don't give a flip about prize money (since they don't get any of it) - they want maximum exposure to the public per dollar spent. A sponsor looks at the cost to enter vs the number of eyeballs captured; sanctioning, classification and prizes are meaningless.

I've pretty much given up on trying to separate "Pro" and "Backyard" cooks. My current approach is to have a single contest and let the teams make their own decisions. It's not hard to structure a contest so that most "Pros" will pass it by if you put limitations on site size, amenities and prize money. Bottom feeders will always exist though. All you can do is depend on peer pressure to weed them out. You could reserve the right to refuse any team, but that opens a whole new can of worms regarding impartiality...