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The great Foil debate.

BBQchef33

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Phil
More stuff i've been meaning to post from Smoke & Fire Enquirer. A heated debate on foiling. I wanted to post the prelude from last month, but they took it down. I know alot of us use foil, i do too. As a tool, not a crutch, but this Smokey dude is adament that his is the only way. IMHO, BBQ is not a textbook, but a laboratory. Experiment, do whats right for you and yours and if theres no leftovers, ya did a good job.

Just some more reading gentlemen.

***snip


Ah, Smoky.

I'm relieved to find that the coast to coast tales of your arrogance are not unfounded. And, it's somewhat of a relief to know that no matter what I say, short of our Lord coming down and judging at the American Royal, Jack Daniels or Memphis in May and proclaiming to His q'uing children that "this is good barbecue," nothing will convince you that any method that varies from yours is evil. In fact, you'd probably argue with Christ Himself. Although I doubt He eats pork.

TEAM NAME OMITTED of Blue Springs, MO dominates the American Royal year after year. They cook with foil, Smoky. TEAM NAME OMITTED of Leawood, KS won Jack Daniel's cooking with foil. The list of smaller contests won by teams using foil is too long to list, and bull-headed "My Way or the Highway" types like yourself wouldn't bother with all that proof anyway. KCBS teams using foil win every weekend, all over the country. If that fact causes you some indigestion, stay away from KCBS contests. You can judge how you like, but please warn us if you are going to judge, because while I have no doubt you have good taste, I am positive your anal-retentive, self-absorbed attitude about barbecuing would benefit no one at a sanctioned contest.

Smoky, I've never turned-in mushy pork ribs. I don't know where you're getting these mushy ribs, but they weren't from anyone taught by the teams I listed above. Now, I've had some amazing meat cooked without foil. And I've had amazing meat cooked with foil. I've had Texas boot leather cooked without foil, and I've had mush cooked with foil. The spirit is in the different people trying different things, and having a great time together.

I know there are some who are "unable or unwilling" to try methods different from how they did things 50 years ago, and I pity them. Because there are many roads to take when making kick-ass barbecue, and people like yourself who see new methods as blasphemy are really missing out. Your brand of "purist" rigidity has nothing to do with the Spirit of Barbecuing. The Spirit of Barbecuing isn't only in the process - it's also in the fun. The idea that our process is inferior to yours because we throw our butts in foil when reaching a certain temperature is just more chest-thumping baloney. Our process takes no less work than yours - I've done plenty of meat without the foil. I like my recipes better. Sometimes the judges agree, sometimes they don't. But the KCBS rules are simple, and the playing field is quite level. Apparently the Big Book of Smoky's Definitions has a different meaning for the word 'level,' too.

You're talking about the Spirit of Barbecue? The spirit isn't in how the food is cooked, Smoky it's in the heart that goes into it. When I stand in the rain at 4:15 am and adjust a baffle by an eighth of an inch because the pit temperature is just a touch high - that's the spirit of barbecue. When my team trades piles of meat, cold brews and secrets with people we met just a few hours before - that's the spirit of barbecue. When I fatten my family up on brisket and send a stranger home with a half a rack of ribs better than he's ever had in his life, that's the spirit of barbecue.

If you're in KC, I'd be happy to let you sample some of our barbecue. In fact, most teams will be happy to give you samples - some with foil, some without. That's the spirit of barbecue. Our bbq won't involve skillets, crock-pots, or KC Masterpiece (although Rich Davis did more to get people cooking in their backyards than you ever will). But, what I feed you will have touched foil. And, I will take your self-righteous abuse with a smile, because all I want to do is have a good time - surly old bulls won't slow me down. But, I suspect you won't go for that, so put your meat where your mouth is: The American Royal is the first weekend in October. Compete.

Have fun.
Pat

Pat, it is so good to find that we agree on at least two things.

We both agree that the essence of barbecue is the sharing of time, our most finite resource, food and fellowship with others. If you had read either of my books or minimally perused the web site without the myopic, opto-rectal, foil-focused fixation, you would have discovered that.

And, we both enjoy pot roast. There are days that just call for a hearty pot roast. A good piece of meat, seared, then sealed to simmer in its own juices until it almost falls apart and served up with potatoes and carrots makes a delicious, nutritious and satisfying meal. (I don't cook in foil, however, because aluminum is unhealthy for the human body). Folk say that I do a pretty good pot roast but it would never occur to me to try to pass it off as barbecue.

But you malign me. I have never claimed to have discovered barbecue nor originated its definition. I do claim to have read the definition, understood it and am willing to accept that definition as accurate and authentic. A truth does not change, regardless of time. What was barbecue 300 years ago, is still barbecue today. What was pot roast 300 years ago is still pot roast.

From recorded history, those who were unwilling to accept the truth have always attacked the messenger. Could it be because they, themselves, deep down, have contempt for what they are doing? So, if my refusal to accept pot roast as barbecue causes me to be called arrogant by those who will not abide the truth, I willingly bear the stones.

Every year there are millions of dollars of counterfeit currency passed upon the naive as real. But, in truth, each bill is still bogus. If every winner of every KCBS contest for the next millennium cooked in foil it would still be pot roast, not barbecue. In human history, there have always been those who dealt in bogus goods. I suppose it should not be surprising that there are those who deal in bogus barbecue. But the dark, onerous burden that every counterfeiter carries is the knowledge that what they are producing is bogus merchandise.

Perhaps it is this burden that causes foilers to react so violently to the simple truth: pot roast is pot roast; barbecue is barbecue.

Have fun,
Smoky


***end snip
 
I read that discussion, too.

While I understand what Smokey is trying to convey I think his constipated position regard foil and just about anything else anyone thinks is a bit juvenile.

Oh well, opinions are like -- well, you know!! :D
 
To each their own. I have heard foil called "The Texas Crutch," I have heard it called "A Tool." I use it because it is a means to an end...Good "Q".
StL Mike
 
I get the newsletter just to laugh at Smokey's arrogance.

Poor bastard.
 
Yeah, makes you wonder if he ever gets a chance to cook 'Q :D Sometimes you'd think the only way to cook 'Q would be to wait on a lightening strike to start the fire -- hickory only, near a stone formation that makes a natural pit, you'd have to kill the animal with stones, skin and dress it with a stone knife, spit the meat on fresh willow limbs or slow cook it over a small fire wrapped in ti leaves, etc. etc. etc.

Shouldn't pick on Smokey too much -- after all, Paul Kirk is nearly as anal about foil :D
 
Of course I could be pretty opinionated too if I got paid $500 a day (or more) to yak about cooking ribs in a cooker designed for me by David Klose. :D
 
Maybe folks shouldn't take this quite all so seriously. Smokey Hale is who he is, and he's pretty entertaining at it, as well as being knowledgeable and opinionated. If you look at people like Dave Linebeck from NC who say you're not really making Q unless you preburn your wood and then add the homemade coals to your homemade brick pit, there is a tradition involved and Q'ing wouldn't be what it is today if not for the holders of the tradition, passing it on.

Hell, theres folks our there who can dig a whole in the ground, put a piece of sheet metal over it and cook a better pig than other's can on a $10,000 rig.

There are times when using foil just makes practical sense. We're not necessarily out there early on Saturday morning to uphold tradition, maybe we're out there lightin' a fire cause we're hungry. I'm just saying, this debate, like many others in barbecue adds color and interest to something we all love to spend time on and should be appreciated for adding richness to our experience. I hope there are always people like Smokey Hale involved in Barbecue whether I agree with him or not.
 
Seriously??? whos taking him seriously??? If anyone does, they need to get another newsletter. Its Smokey for petes sake. Expect it. He is entertaining, very opinionated and damn, he does know his stuff.... and I posted this stuff with the intent to spark debate just like this. One thing that got me though, when I read Smokeys barbed response to the readers(barbed also) letter was the sense of intolerence. I think that being accepting of other peoples techniques and respecting their ways are really important. But smokey trashed this guy for being different.... IMO..part of Q is frendship and respect for people, not just tradition. Some peoples techniques may deviate from the age old tradition, but if we didnt tweak, and change, and experiment, how would we ever improve(or fail for that matter).? Yup, we are followers of an age old art, but the part of it(besides the eating) I like best is the experimenting. Who's to say that as soon as i wrap in foil I made Pot roast?!!! Damn, if i spend 16 hours in january freezing my butt off nursing a brisket... it better not taste like pot roast. ! He has that same attitude towards "fall off the bone ribs".... If they fall off the bone, they are not good. Well, aside from the judges at the table, i think most people prefer the fall off the bone, but according to smokey, they're no good, mushy and overcooked. EEEKKKKK.. i aint never feeding him my ribs! At least print this stuff under the heading of editorials or opinion.. then we read it as such.
 
Ok, so I’m 2 days late posting this.
I’m not a reader of Smokey’s newsletter, so I am not
going to try to judge him. I think I’ve read some of his
stuff in the past. He does seem to be very knowledgeable
about his chosen subject. Would it be accurate to say he
has a bit of shock jock in him? You know, Howard Stern, Rush
Limbaugh. These guys take an opinionated stance on a subject
(imo) whether or not they believe it themselves for ratings or
public reaction just to stay in business.
Let’s face it some of these guys would be laughed off
their chosen media if they weren’t so outrageous, and controversy
is the name of their game.

I take their TRIPE with a pinch of salt.


Can I add this $.02 to Brian’s total for the next bash???
Harry
“Cabo”
 
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