Sanctioned vs Money

[barbedQ]

I was having a conversation with some buddies last night and they asked me a question that I thought would be a good topic for the forum.

Is sanctioning of an event more important than the money?

If so where do you think the line is.

I told them that as an almost non-entity in the run for Grand or Reserve, I'd go for an event with a bigger prize pool over sanctioning.

Thoughts?

 

[Dustaway]

I can only speak for my experience in Texas, sanctioning an event does help.

however in Texas there are a lot of bar room or"ice house" cook offs that are not sanctioned that pay big money up wards of 10k they do try to follow most sanctioning rules one rule that most have is the brisket is usually tagged and all the slices must come from that brisket.

for me it all depends on the time of year how many cook offs there are that weekend and of course the money.

 

[Plowboy]

I think the answer depends on who's answering it.

For those chasing Team of the Year points, Jack draws, or invitations, then sanctioning is going to rate pretty high. Although, that can easily go out the window for the right money... say $75,000 purse on last year's VS. BBQ Championship.

I cook a non-sanctioned comp each year purely for the money... or hopes of money. I'm not chasing points, but would like a GC in my lifetime, so will try to do as many sanctioned contests as I can. I have a GC from a non-sanctioned contest, but it doesn't mean nearly the same to me.

From my experience, a contest organizer is going to have a better turnout if it is sanctioned, unless they throw A LOT of money at the purse. Dollar for dollar, sanctioning is going to bring you more teams. I think most of it is awareness. Most teams look to their sanctioning body to become aware of contests in their area.

 

[Bigmista]

We have been having a similar conversation on the CBBQA site. Our conversation has been a little more specific though. Our question has been what does the KCBS offer that we can't do ourselves? The CBBQA has been sanctioning events that promoters couldn't get sanctioned by the KCBS for whatever reason whether it was timing or cost.

We've seen organizations like the FBA and IBCA sanction their own events and be successful and it. That leads us to ask, what does the KCBS really offer us here in California?

Rules? We can use KCBS rules without sanctioning. We do it frequently now. And we can always come up with our own rules.

CBJ's? We could train our own judges and unlike KCBS we could institute continuing judges.

And with most of the people on board of the KCBS living within 100 miles of KC, I have to ask how much do our concerns matter?

So I think sanctioning does matter but I don't think it has to be KCBS. You can get to the Jack or the AR without being in a KCBS event.

 

[G$]

I was having a conversation with some buddies last night and they asked me a question that I thought would be a good topic for the forum.

Is sanctioning of an event more important than the money?

If so where do you think the line is.

I told them that as an almost non-entity in the run for Grand or Reserve, I'd go for an event with a bigger prize pool over sanctioning.

Thoughts?

Really good question, and I think BigMista answered very well a little bit ago. I'm just thinking out loud here.

In my view, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, I'd rather have the prize money. The problem is, all other things aren't equal. Sanctioning, in many cases, ensures a better run, ostensibly fairer competition, which benefits everyone clearly. I know, apart from a rare occurences, KCBS sanctioning is going to ensure a fair, well administered contest.

There must come a point, however, when the "critical mass" of knowledgeable, capable people becomes available, and sanctioning becomes less important relative to the prize money.

I noticed, barbedQ, that you are from Tempe. I think our 'local' leadership is recently doing a very very very good job in growing the base, and I would trust them in running 'un-sanctioned' events. We (as a team) are not going to be able to compete in enough KCBS events to make season stats meaningful, and will never sniff GC in a giant event, so unsanctioned contests (that are both well run and well attended) seem a good fit.

I'm rambling. Again, thanks for the thoughtful question.

 

[Plowboy]

We have been having a similar conversation on the CBBQA site. Our conversation has been a little more specific though. Our question has been what does the KCBS offer that we can't do ourselves? The CBBQA has been sanctioning events that promoters couldn't get sanctioned by the KCBS for whatever reason whether it was timing or cost.

We've seen organizations like the FBA and IBCA sanction their own events and be successful and it. That leads us to ask, what does the KCBS really offer us here in California?

Rules? We can use KCBS rules without sanctioning. We do it frequently now. And we can always come up with our own rules.

CBJ's? We could train our own judges and unlike KCBS we could institute continuing judges.

And with most of the people on board of the KCBS living within 100 miles of KC, I have to ask how much do our concerns matter?

So I think sanctioning does matter but I don't think it has to be KCBS. You can get to the Jack or the AR without being in a KCBS event.

But the question still remains, is it more the money or the sanctioning: KCBS, FBA, NEBS, CBBQA, or IBCA? I'm guessing the basis of the question is about attracting teams to an event.

SIDEBAR: I only know of four that live in the KC area. I'm not sure if all of these people are board members still.

Troy Black - no
Donna McClure - yes
Ed Roith - Yes
Rod Gray - yes
Paul Kirk - yes
Mike Lake - no
Don Harwell - no
Jim Minion - No
Merl Whitebrook - no
Wayne Lohman - ???
Linda Mulane - no

 

[ThomEmery]

This really only come into play in the smaller contests
$3000 and below types
If you have $10,000 you have the $ to make it all happen

 

[drbbq]

I'm always bothered by events that say we don't need KCBS, we'll just use their rules.

KCBS has built the circuit, sorted out the rules and now you'll just blow them off and use their rules and in many cases their scoring program without paying them? Seems wrong to me.

As for the original question, I'd say sanctioning is more important than money. I've seen many non-sanctioned events create a lot of bad blood.

 

[G$]

I'm always bothered by events that say we don't need KCBS, we'll just use their rules.

I sort of agree with this, especially if the rules are literally lifted 'word for word'. However, KCBS did not invent food judging, table captains, weighted scores, etc.

For perspective, one thing some of the more seasoned competitiors here should know is that some folks, in some parts of the country, may have only 3 feasible contests a season. In this scenario, it really is a valid question to ask how valuable sanctioning is.

 

[benjet]

I think the answer depends on who's answering it.

For those chasing ....... Jack draws, or invitations, then sanctioning is going to rate pretty high.

umm, pls explain this...where does sanctioning come into play here at all?

 

[Plowboy]

umm, pls explain this...where does sanctioning come into play here at all?

You are right, it doesn't. State Championships not sanctioning. Thanks for correcting.

 

[benjet]

sanctioning is going to ensure a fair, well administered contest.

As a contest organizer this is now 0 and 2 in my book. While I realize that others have not had the issues I have had, bottom line is that I, as an organizer now have very little faith left in the system that you as competitors are trying to tell me is the "right" way to do things.

This better be a good sell.

 

[YankeeBBQ]

As a contest organizer this is now 0 and 2 in my book. While I realize that others have not had the issues I have had, bottom line is that I, as an organizer now have very little faith left in the system that you as competitors are trying to tell me is the "right" way to do things.

This better be a good sell.

What issues have you had ?

 

[Diva]

Why?

As a competitor it's nice to know that we have a sanctioning body that has our back. What if an organizer (not you, this is hypothetical) says they have x amount of dollars in prize money and when the contestants get there they only have half of x. Sanctioning bodies, such as KCBS, have a letter from the organizer that states the amount of prize money that is to be given away at their contest and it's guaranteed. Rules and regulations set forth by the sanctioning body are used and enforced by representatives of the sanctioning body that are there to administer cooks/judges meetings and tally the scores.

 

[benjet]

What issues have you had ?

I will be taking my list of issues up with the sanctioning body directly and will publicly air them after they have had a chance to respond, so far they have chosen not to.

 

[Bentley]

Sanctioning bodies, such as KCBS, have a letter from the organizer that states the amount of prize money that is to be given away at their contest and it's guaranteed.

Where did you find this info?

The only thing I have ever seen at the KCBS site is this...It is from the Sanction Suggestions and Helpful Information

I’ve (1) Set the date,
(2) Applied for Sanction and approved,
(3) Paid the minimum sanction fee to be listed,
(4) Agreed to abide by KCBS Rules & Regulations,
(5) Furnish evidence of insurance, and
(6) Guaranteed the Purse.

Thats it, no rules regarding how this is accomplished.


No where do I see anything that spells out that a purse is guaranteed, and that if it is guaranteed how are the funds secured. I do not believe that KCBS has anything to do with coming up with funds if for some reason they are not available. If I am wrong, I would love someone to point out to me where KCBS spells out their specific guidelines for guaranteeing the prize money?

This is the link to the Sanction Suggestions and Helpful Information.
http://www.kcbs.us/sanction_suggestions.jsp

Maybe someone can show me in there where I am missing this fact, or if it is some where else they can point it out to me.

To me it comes down to who is promoting the contest. Do I know their background? I would not hesitate to enter a contest that Arlie puts on, just because I have been in ones he promotes, I know they are run correctly and that the money is there. I would be more concerned with who is running the event than who is sanctioning it. Now if you prefer a certain criteria of cooking, say KCBS or MIM or IBCA, then it is important as to what sanctioning rules are being used!

 

[Merl]

I brought forward a motion to the KCBS Board last month to require on a web and the Bullsheet that we publish the following information.

1. Last years number and percentage of CBJ's
2. THE GUARANTEED PRIZE MONEY.

The motions did not go forward, due to errors in the office about posting the agenda. We cannot take votes on matters we do not publish in advance.

Therefore all three of the items which I posted for discussion and possible votes could not be considered. Hopefully next month the agenda will provide for an action request to consider this.

It would not surprise me if there was opposition to such a thing. I sincerely hope we can pass this.

I will let you know.
Merl Whitebook
KCBS Board of Directors.

PS you can call the office and ask what the guaranteed prize money letter states. It must be on file 90 days prior to the contest.

 

[Bigmista]

Sanctioning bodies, such as KCBS, have a letter from the organizer that states the amount of prize money that is to be given away at their contest and it's guaranteed.

What type of letter is this? Is it from a bank or some other financial institution? Are the funds put into some kind of escrow account? I'm sure that the sanctioning body doesn't guarantee the funds themselves for all of the sanctioned events so I am curious as to how this works.

 

[lazyjacres]

As a contest oganizer for a not for profit organization I was extremely worried about contest pay out, as I am not allowed to pay out more than we bring in, in case of a short roster.
I asked the question to KCBS and my understanding is that if you advertise a specific pay out amount, you have basically guaranteed that amount of money.
For the first couple of years my pay out increased as the number of teams increased, so I could not advertise a pay out amount. I did not sanction the contest for the first 3 years.
The contest has grown to a full field on 25 (that's all the room I have) and it is sanctioned with a promised purse.

 

[lazyjacres]

What type of letter is this? Is it from a bank or some other financial institution? Are the funds put into some kind of escrow account? I'm sure that the sanctioning body doesn't guarantee the funds themselves for all of the sanctioned events so I am curious as to how this works.

As a KCBS contest organizer, I have never seen this letter, or submitted one.