questions from a new bandera owner

[eagle697]

I recently purchased a used NB Bandera off craigslist and have only used it once. Was happy with the results but had a few questions. Was wondering if anyone could answer a few questions i had. I read the basic info and added the baffle, attempted to use the minion method, and added an expanded metal fire grate but still had a difficult time keeping the temps regulated. Have seen all the talk about using a charcoal basket to help with this but was wondering about them. Most discussions I have seen about them suggest closing the dampers on the firebox to help control heat. Doesn't this cause the coals to smolder and create bitter taste? I thought about using wood instead of coals but didn't know how well wood worked in this size smoker. Thanks for any help with this. I am new to this site but have found it very helpful already.

 

[Kevin]

Have you read the Bandera 101? A wealth of information there to get you started. Go to our home page here: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/index.php scroll down and click on the flame.

My thoughts, the Bandera type cooker (I personaly have a Brinkmann clone) is a fuel hog and likes a lot of combustion air to operate. Raise the fire grate at least an inch and a half or 2 inches. Choking down the intake air won't give you bad smoke. Choking the exhaust sure will though. I burn mostly Oak wood. Charcoal briquettes to start, and some times add a chimney of briquettes during the cook to re establish a good coal base, but once you get a handle on fire control you can get by with almost all wood if that is what you desire.

Welcome to the party.

 

[Bill-Chicago]

What were your problems controlling heat, specifically?

Were you running too hot, or too cool, or both.

What was your target temp?

What was the weather like (especially the wind)

Did you use flavor wood like hickory with higher BTU temps or Apple which burns cooler.

By coals do you mean charcoal briquettes or lump hardwood charcoal (natural)

You can easily go "all wood" on a Bandera.

Do it all the time (but with no splits, I use a ton of hickory chunk bags)

Did you use chunk wood or chips.

Lots of variables, but plenty of people here who been there before.

Feed us as much info as possible.

Welcome

 

[eagle697]

I have checked out the 101. got the great info about the mods from there. Here's what i did and what happened.

I aimed for a temp of 230. was smoking 2 boston butts.
weather- calm in 50s-60's
My grate is raised about 3 inches from the bottom.
I started using Kingsford briquettes and tried the minnion method. It seemed to spread too rapidly and heat spiked
to 350. I removed some of the coals and got temp down. the coals i left in one corner and tried to arrange lump in a Z shaped to get a prolonged burn and not have to add coals all the time. THey seemed to catch too quickly and temp spiked again. I then just added a small amount of unlit lump to the edges every 25-30 min the remaining time because it was the easiest way to keep temp regulated.
For smoke i added apple chips periodically for the first few hours of the smoke. I could regulate but it was a lot of work. Was just looking for a way to do it without the constant attention.
thanks

 

[Bill-Chicago]

Was just looking for a way to do it without the constant attention.

Try a couple cooks using Kingsford and wood chunks, not chips.

Most important tool to follow is a Weber chimney, followed by thick leather/welder gloves to move lit chunks and chit around

Try this:

Take on full lit chimney of Kingsford (I use my turkey fryer, others the side car on the gasser, or rolled up paper) anddump it into the Dera. Move coals away from walls to prevent burn through. pile up as best as possible. Throw on 3 fist sized chunks hickory.

Close lid, side vent on box and top chimney wide open.

Throw meat in smoker (I use warm water in water pan to start). Up to 230* in about a half hour, maybe less. If I have a smaller cook, I use the Heat Shield (search that) to cut down the size of the smoke box.

You know have your coal bed going. Every time the temp goes south of 215 (you said 230 was your target) I would quickly open the firebox and put in 2-3 large chunks of wood (ideally, you had them on top of the firebox prewarming, so they instantly ignite)

Continue

When on the 3rd or fourth fueling you notice the coal bed diminishing, add another 3/4 lit chimney Kingsford, repeat.

If you find Lump charcoal, you can replenish the bed without prelighting like Kingsford. Just throw in a half chimney worth and let it ignite in the box. Less ash this way too.

You bought a Bandera my friend, and half the fun is fuel maintenance. But with practice (and ideal no wind conditions, and heat shield mastery) you can sometimes dial it in for hours at a time. I do now, or that is, when I crack out the Dera couple times a year.

Good luck Eagle

And enjoy the ride, its half the fun

 

[kcbrute]

As a fellow new bandera owner I'm experiencing those same things you described I will definitely be following this thread to learn along.
I’m in the process of building a charcoal basket, hopefully that will help extend the burn time. I think that will keep the coals closer together an hopefully avoid that fast hot burn. About half way thru my smoke I was also adding coals about every 30 min.

 

[eagle697]

thanks for the tip Willkat. I will try that next smoke, Hopefully this weekend.:-D
I have a chimney and will put it to use. a questions about the capacity of the bandera. How many butts can you smoke effectively? i think i could fit 8-12 easily. does it effect the quality to cook that many? Just curious before i try to cook for a crowd.

also, is it common for wives to start making faces every time you mention smoking on the weekend?

 

[RichardF]

Minion method is tuff in a bandera. To many air leaks to regulate the temp well. You also get too many coals lit when you are getting up to temp.

I think you would be hard pressed to get 8 to 12 butts in the cooker. I'm thinking 6, maybe eight. How many folks are you cooking for

 

[eagle697]

i don't plan on using the minion again. Can't wait on trying Willkats suggestions soon. However, I am intrigued by the idea of basket to reduce time between refuels. Is there an advantage between the maze-style basket v. the plain basket-type? just curious.
I was thinking about cooking que for my students at the year. I have 100 or so and was just curious if one smoke would do it or if i needed to do it over a few cooks. Thanks,

 

[RichardF]

i don't plan on using the minion again. Can't wait on trying Willkats suggestions soon. However, I am intrigued by the idea of basket to reduce time between refuels. Is there an advantage between the maze-style basket v. the plain basket-type? just curious.
I was thinking about cooking que for my students at the year. I have 100 or so and was just curious if one smoke would do it or if i needed to do it over a few cooks. Thanks,

I have the Big Al designed as built by Spicewine basket, which has the full-width dividers. I think it works well because it slows-down the rate at which the coals can ignite, which allows for periods of unattended cooking. Without dividers or the maze, you have the same problem of too many coals igniting at once. If you are building a wood fire, you pretty-much have to tend the fire on a frequent basis, which isn't bad either.

 

[StLouQue]

Eagle,

Welcome.

I'm down with Bill's tips. My BigAl charcoal basket (see photo) allows me much longer burns, at consistent temps, by separating hot from cold coals, a variation of the Minion method, as I understand it. As the first (hot) side burns down, the other (cold side) ignites. When the second side is burning about halfway, I dump (unlit) lump in the first side. After a while, the second (hot) side ignites the first. Sorta like ping-pong.

This basket was my second best investment, after the 'dera, itself. Thanks Big Al, wherever you are.

 

[Bill-Chicago]

Eagle,

Welcome.

I'm down with Bill's tips. My BigAl charcoal basket (see photo) allows me much longer burns, at consistent temps, by separating hot from cold coals, a variation of the Minion method, as I understand it. As the first (hot) side burns down, the other (cold side) ignites. When the second side is burning about halfway, I dump (unlit) lump in the first side. After a while, the second (hot) side ignites the first. Sorta like ping-pong.

This basket was my second best investment, after the 'dera, itself. Thanks Big Al, wherever you are.

Chit, I got an Al basket I never get to use

Gonna need to try using it again.

And Agree with Richard on the butt #'s

I got 12 grates (ordered 8 extra)

If I was able to fit 8 - 12 butts (if I could get 2 per grate) the heat distribution would be so uneven, it would take 32 hours to cook them all.

Start small, and mix it up.

I go 1 rack of baby's per grate, corner to corner alternating to stacking "X"'s up the Dera (if you can picture that), pork loin on top, butt or two n the bottom.

As the ribs come off in 6 hours throw in a cooler (have you looked up coolering meat, wrapping in foil, then a towel (or not) then in a cooler with no water for 2 hours. This trick holds and finishes butts and briskets too)

Now with the smaller amount of fuel, use the heat shield to lower the smoke chamber height volume and save fuel and pump temps.

Let us know how this weekend goes, and take notes on what you saw upthread. What did you observe, what did you try, what happened after you did XYZ, etc.

Good luck Eagle and KCBrute

 

[butts a fire]

I do it a lot like (with a few exceptions) Bill said I start out with a full chimney of Kingsford lit and put that in the Dera. After the temps start getting up I will move those coals towards the cooking chamber and add unlit Kingsford on the end towards the vent opening and wood chunks at that time also close down the vent quite a bit. As the cook progresses I will move the coals towards the cooking chamber and add more K towards the vent side. This is similar to the Al basket but you can do it with just your charcoal grate. After doing this a few times I have been able to get a couple hour burn at a time and some time 3-4 hours if the conditions are good.

Another tip is when you have a temp spike add cold water to the water pan this will help drop the temp in the cooking chamber until your fire stabilizes.

I have never loaded up that much meat at a time on my deras I would think you could probably do 6 butts at one time but they will take longer to cook and you smoker will take a while to get up to temp with that much mass in it. I do know that you can do 12 racks of babybacks on four grates three per racks with out rib racks.

 

[NCGrimbo]

Wow, several post from Bill and no smart ass remarks. It's a Brethren first. :eusa_clap

As a Bandera owner, I have to agree 100% with Bill's posts. He's right on the money. The only thing I do differently is that I use lump instead of charcoal. It takes a little while longer to get up to temp, but I have found that it tends to not go over 250 degrees as much as charcoal does. I used to fight tooth and nail with keeping the chamber temp at 250 or less when I used charcoal. I even fell asleep once and when I woke, the chamber temp was closing in on 400. Since moving to lump, I rarely see it over 300, and that only happens when I don't check on it every 30 minutes or so. Learning to work the baffles on the Bandera has made all the difference to my cooking. And also remember that when you put the Hickory or Oak or whatever wood you are using, expect a spike in temperature and plan for it.

 

[Bill-Chicago]

Wow, several post from Bill and no smart ass remarks. It's a Brethren first. :eusa_clap

That was harsh :evil:

LOL, sobriety works wonders.

It's just great to find a "new Bandera owner", since they have at last hearing about it, ceased production of the Beast

 

[NCGrimbo]

It's just great to find a "new Bandera owner", since they have at last hearing about it, ceased production of the Beast

True.

 

[sajones97]

Char broil is still making them, but structurally way inferior to the NB.

I've got a char broil, and love it, but I drool when I come across the original.

I purchased a spicewine basket as well. Couldn't believe the difference in fire control.

Thanks Spicewine!

 

[Bill-Chicago]

Char broil is still making them, but structurally way inferior to the NB.

I think its been completely removed from their line up.

For a while, it had been on the website, but they have since removed it.

http://www.charbroil.com/consumerwebhome/offsetsmokers.aspx

I believe they have also killed the New Braunfels domain name, as that also had its own images, manuals, etc for the older stuff, but then became a redirect to Charbroil sans the Bandera

 

[G$]

Great info in this thread!

Just a personal opinion: Although I had a basket and used it in the Bandera, I actually decided it was not 'worth it' most of the time. I could get several hours using it, which is great, but part of the nature of the bandera is feeding it fuel. As long as you "accept" this, it is not so bad.

On long cooks, I would generally tend the fire most of the time. The best use of the basket to me was to start a cook and get a few hours of sleep, before it was awake time and I could feed the beast, OR to use it for the last several hours of a cook where i did not want to feed wood and did not mind 4 or 5 tapering hours at the end.

I also noticed that you really needed to get the thing up to temp BEFORE using the basket. The catch-22 of the Bandera with Basket, for ME, was that in order to get the temp up, I'd have to burn hot and open. Burning hot and open can lead to a fully ignited basket! Defeat the purpose mod. So, use an external heat source or similar creative notion to get up to temp, THEN put the loaded basket in to place.

My basket is one built by spicewine, and I now use it IN my spicewine. If I ever use the Bandera these days, I resign myself to feeding fuel. (not a bad thing, just a thing).

 

[C Rocke]

Char broil is still making them, but structurally way inferior to the NB.

I've got a char broil, and love it, but I drool when I come across the original.

I purchased a spicewine basket as well. Couldn't believe the difference in fire control.

Thanks Spicewine!

Yep - 3 Char Broil Banderas left at my Home Depot here for $200 a piece. Per the HD manager - Discontinued.