Judging Taste versus Tenderness in weighting criteria

[PITBULL PIT MASTER]

So I propose the question of why don't most associations Change their weighting criteria to make tenderness the heavier weighed judging criteria for scores. Taste is the most subjective category and I feel should be weighted lower than tenderness. I believe it takes a master chef to get the tenderness just right which everyone associates great bbq with. Taste I feel comes down to that judges specific flavor profile on that day. So many variables can change a person's taste on any given day. That judge may have a cold or just don't like something the chef likes. Why should a cook get a lower score cause that judge doesn't like maple flavor compares to honey or it has just a little too much heat for him or her. It's not fare to cooks if a judge doesn't like a specific flavor.

Tenderness is the most difficult to achieve just right not the taste. Two teams could use the same exact rubs sauces wood and smokers and based on taste if you took two tables of judges you would prob get different taste scores because every person is different. But if they both cooked to exact same tenderness the scores would be similar. What makes a skilled Pitmaster achieving perfect taste or tenderness?

What does everyone think?

 

[airedale]

The question is not which is harder to achieve. The question is which is more important.

 

[PITBULL PIT MASTER]

I agree and I believe tenderness and texture to me are the hardest to achieve and the most important to achieve just right in BBQ. Take for instance you completely over cook your pork but it tastes awesome with sauce, rub and smoke but you failed as a skilled Pitmaster to get that perfect tenderness and texture but you Still score high because of the taste.

 

[thesemicullen]

This is how new sanctioning bodies get started.

 

[marvda1]

some people like fall of the bone tender and some like a little tug.

 

[IamMadMan]

So I propose the question of why don't most associations Change their weighting criteria to make tenderness the heavier weighed judging criteria for scores. Taste is the most subjective category and I feel should be weighted lower than tenderness. I believe it takes a master chef to get the tenderness just right which everyone associates great bbq with. Taste I feel comes down to that judges specific flavor profile on that day. So many variables can change a person's taste on any given day. That judge may have a cold or just don't like something the chef likes. Why should a cook get a lower score cause that judge doesn't like maple flavor compares to honey or it has just a little too much heat for him or her. It's not fare to cooks if a judge doesn't like a specific flavor.

Tenderness is the most difficult to achieve just right not the taste. Two teams could use the same exact rubs sauces wood and smokers and based on taste if you took two tables of judges you would prob get different taste scores because every person is different. But if they both cooked to exact same tenderness the scores would be similar. What makes a skilled Pitmaster achieving perfect taste or tenderness?

What does everyone think?

I understand where you are coming from, but balance of all components is the overall criteria. One could not eat competition as it has a wow factor that has to sway them with a single bite. After several bites one realizes the spices overpower the meat as you continue. The same holds true for tenderness.... While many like fall off the bone very loose texture, many prefer that tug and a great chew. Getting to that perfect spot without under-cooking or over-cooking takes a little more skill.

Overall, no matter how hard the organization tries, it is almost impossible to remove personal preferences completely from the judges. You can guide them and set criteria in place, but when one finds that piece of meat that sings to their taste buds, everything goes out the window...

But just my opinion...

 

[Nvoges]

Tenderness is just as subjective as taste.

 

[masque13]

Tenderness is just as subjective as taste.

holy crap dude you literally have the FUNNIEST avatar I think I have ever seen on any message board! well done. :clap2:

 

[tduffy]

Tenderness is just as subjective as taste.

Agreed. And I also don't think tenderness is that hard to achieve. Pay attention during your cook.

 

[bigdogphin]

So I propose the question of why don't most associations Change their weighting criteria to make tenderness the heavier weighed judging criteria for scores. Taste is the most subjective category and I feel should be weighted lower than tenderness. I believe it takes a master chef to get the tenderness just right which everyone associates great bbq with. Taste I feel comes down to that judges specific flavor profile on that day. So many variables can change a person's taste on any given day. That judge may have a cold or just don't like something the chef likes. Why should a cook get a lower score cause that judge doesn't like maple flavor compares to honey or it has just a little too much heat for him or her. It's not fare to cooks if a judge doesn't like a specific flavor.

Tenderness is the most difficult to achieve just right not the taste. Two teams could use the same exact rubs sauces wood and smokers and based on taste if you took two tables of judges you would prob get different taste scores because every person is different. But if they both cooked to exact same tenderness the scores would be similar. What makes a skilled Pitmaster achieving perfect taste or tenderness?

What does everyone think?

I brought this up when the PNWBA voted it in but was told taste is more important.(even though you didn't cook it right it still tastes good) This also leads to being able to hit a certain flavor profile and have repeated success. Add in the 10 point scoring and you have skewed system.

 

[PITBULL PIT MASTER]

I totally agree with you Jesse once you nail the flavor profile of that region and the same judges continue to judge the majority of the contests I would say you have an advantage. If you cook the same flavor over and over and you continue to win then it's a pattern. Is it because those judges are now a custom to that flavor profile. I would love to do an experiment cook with some judges using all the same rubs and sauces and wood and smoker system to see if there are any variations in taste and tenderness scores. But use the tenderness as a higher weighted criteria.

 

[ckelly]

What takes more skill?

Buying a proven competition grade sauce and/or rub or cooking a piece of meat to the perfect tenderness?

After all, that's how the items we cook today were selected, were they not?
Seemingly otherwise "garbage" pieces of meat that when exposed to heat and smoke for extended period of time yield some of the most tasty food you have ever experienced (at least when it comes to brisket and pork shoulder).

The skill is in cooking it properly, not seasoning it with the same rub and sauce that the majority of your competitors are or could be using.

 

[Pappy Q]

Interesting concept and can be debated either way. I'm not sure their should even be a weighted system. I wonder if the "average" judge is even aware of the weighted system?

 

[bigdogphin]

I totally agree with you Jesse once you nail the flavor profile of that region and the same judges continue to judge the majority of the contests I would say you have an advantage. If you cook the same flavor over and over and you continue to win then it's a pattern. Is it because those judges are now a custom to that flavor profile. I would love to do an experiment cook with some judges using all the same rubs and sauces and wood and smoker system to see if there are any variations in taste and tenderness scores. But use the tenderness as a higher weighted criteria.

To bad you weren't around when they voted it in. I was the lone voice of opposition now it will be even harder to change back.

 

[Serious Hog]

Some on this thread seem to suggest that getting great taste is as simple as applying proven rubs and sauces, but I disagree with that. I think selecting the right cuts of meat, running a clean fire, and finding the proper combination of fuel/smoking wood/marinades/seasonings/injections all affect how the final product tastes. And a lot of other variables do too.


I have no problem with the current weighting system. You already do (and should) have to nail tenderness to score high enough to win, but to me taste is the ultimate judge of how good food (BBQ or otherwise) is.

 

[jaestar]

You also have to hit tenderness in order to score well in tast. I know if I miss tenderness that my taste scores will suffer.

 

[Serious Hog]

You also have to hit tenderness in order to score well in tast. I know if I miss tenderness that my taste scores will suffer.

Totally agree, I think Appearance can also affect (positively/negatively) the way Taste is perceived.

 

[Gowan]

You really want the truth? Ready? Wait for it....

All BBQ judging criteria is subjective.

Whoever makes up the rules defines what is "right" based on their own personal preferences. Hence the "KCBS bite" rule. Why is it the definition of a "perfectly cooked rib"? Because Ed Roith said so.

 

[CBQ]

Some on this thread seem to suggest that getting great taste is as simple as applying proven rubs and sauces, but I disagree with that.

My brisket uses multiple rubs. How they are applied, in what order, and how much is used do make a difference. Get it wrong and you could end up with a bland or salty brisket, no matter how well you cook it.

I also think tenderness has a lot of influence on the taste score. Can you fairly evaluate the taste of a tough rib, ignoring the fact that you can't chew it?

Let's face it, there are a lot of good teams out there and you have to nail them both to win. It IS food though, so I'm personally OK with taste being the higher weight.

 

[tduffy]

If you think flavor profiles and taste are as simple as applying rub and sauce you probably aren't winning much.