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Judges' Instructions on temperature / appearance.

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G$

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I am curious, are KCBS judges instructed to specifically weigh meat temperature as part of the texture of an entry? Or, is it more a subjective impact on their experience?

Second, if the process is to pass around the entry and score on Appearance, and THEN distribute samples and proceed with the rest of the scoring, could a judge revise his appearance score after getting his sample. (Just hypothetically, assume a chicken entry looks fantastic in the box, but when the judge takes a sample and turns it over during tast/texture, he sees black streaks all over it. Could he revise his appearance score?)
 
No, there is no such instruction given to judges concerning temperature. Examples are given as far as what would be considered overdone or underdone and properly done but ultimately it is up to the judges senses to decide a score
Scores can't be changed without a Reps permission once the score has been written on the scorecard.
 
The only reasons to change an appearance score is because of a potential DQ. the appearance has to be scored before judges grab the food... It wouldn't be fair to have a half empty box,t hen score appearance.

This means that, yes, you can hide a spot you don't want seen under other meat or parsley, but be careful... if it looks like you're hiding stuff, you may not score as well.
 
Temp doesn't officallly play a role in judging, but I'd rather get a warm piece of meat than a cold one. Most times the food's pretty close to room temp.

Apperence scores are only when the meat's in the box. Table capts should check that everyone has finished their scores before handing out the meat for judging taste and tenderness.
 
KCBS rules stipulate that temperature is to be disregraded when judging a turn-in. The rules also stipulate that once a mark is given it can not be changed. All teams should familiarize themselves with the rules before participating in a contest.
 
Guy - I just reread the rules, and there's nothing in there about temp at all. Only to judge each sample as presented. So if it's hot, then it gets judged hot; cold - judged cold. Somethings just taste better hot.
 
The appearance scores can only be changed on the instruction from the KCBS rep (at a KCBS sanctioned event). That would normally happen if after removing the pieces of meat it was discovered that there was a foreign object in the box, like a lettuce core or something they couldn't see when everything was in the box.

Another way to judge appearance would be to judge it after the meat has been put on the judging plate. Then you can be assured that the judges are judging the appearence of the meat and not the garnish.
 
Sawdustguy said:
KCBS rules stipulate that temperature is to be disregraded when judging a turn-in. The rules also stipulate that once a mark is given it can not be changed. All teams should familiarize themselves with the rules before participating in a contest.
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Thanks Guy, that's what I am trying to do! (Example, I bet many competitors do not know how the appearance scores are judged first, and 'separately')
 
MoKanMeathead said:
Another way to judge appearance would be to judge it after the meat has been put on the judging plate. Then you can be assured that the judges are judging the appearence of the meat and not the garnish.
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MoKan, please confirm that this is NOT how you have ever been instructed to judge, and just an idea to increase fairness.
 
Temperature?
All but one entry I have judged were room temp. One was "ice cold", literally. Tasted bad and was scored as such.
Guess they should have Micro Nuked it a bit more????? :lol: (only joking guys),

Appearance scores (in fact all of them) can not be changed after entered. True.
But, I (for some unknown dumb reason) skipped a line on my sheet.
Caught it immediately and showed table captain. He said that, if needed, he would get Rep to OK a change because it was just a clerical error. Luckily, the next entry scored the same (6's), so the "problem" disappeared. :lol:

FWIW

TIM
 
In training - at least the ones I've been to - judges are reminded that it's not the team's fault that the meat doesn't get to them immediately. Your box can sit for 0-10 or 15 minutes if things get hung up at turnin. So, heat it not "expected" - I have had some chicken that was so hot it had to cool before I could taste it. But, generally, you will not be marked down for room temp or tepid meat.

Appearance scores are marked first in both FBA and KCBS and may not be changed unless a DQ is declared. So, no, you can't revise your appearance score just because it has grill marks or whatever on the bottom...heck, it could have wilted lettuce stuck to the bottom - but that is not a reason to change an appearance score.
 
It's all true as per above IMHO, temp should be no factor, once judged in appearance, so let it be written, so let it be done; unless something obvious comes up per the capn or the rep.
(don't really enjoy cold que though, never had any too hot to taste.)
I do try and pay attention.
 
BrooklynQ said:
Guy - I just reread the rules, and there's nothing in there about temp at all. Only to judge each sample as presented. So if it's hot, then it gets judged hot; cold - judged cold. Somethings just taste better hot.
Click to expand...

I humbly stand corrected.
 
djmarko said:
Scores can't be changed without a Reps permission once the score has been written on the scorecard.
Click to expand...

Rich or anyone else - I have not & would not do this myself or personally seen it before when judging, but I'm guessing not every table captain remembers to check to ensure that the appearance score is clearly written down before moving to the next entry to pass around for appearance. From what I've seen, once the box is passed around, and the judges shake their heads in agreement that they have sufficiently viewed the entry, the table captain will then move to the next box.

If the table captain does not do this, who is to know if a score was crossed out and re-scored by a judge prior to or after seeing other boxes for appearance or when actually eating the meat to judge the taste and tenderness score ?

Especially using a pencil... erasing the original score or just crossing out and re-scoring must occur.... especially for contests with new judges or non-certified judges who may not pay attention to the rules.

What happens in this case ?
 
As one who is learning from experience cooking (many forms), retired Military, and tries to be a good man I would like to say as I learn the BBQ world I have run into many competitors and judges and the vast majority are honest people with a desire to do the best they can do in their life\hobby as a judge I have a personal mandate to myself to be honest, fair, and ethical in every thing I do while acting as a judge. When I cross the road and finally get to cook I will take this mandate to myself appearance is judged as you look at it not later and there is a reason for that. Appearance is also just that what you see if you do not see it it does not exist and because we are judging the turn in appearance not each piece then we MUST judge the picture not the ugly bird hiding in the tree. I hope that as a judge (this does not include the one or two that go just for lunch and should be shot) we will all hold to the other we take and remember just how much time, effort, thought, work, and pressure has gone into the appearance we are judging. Rant off ethics rules
 
MilitantSquatter said:
who is to know if a score was crossed out and re-scored by a judge prior to or after seeing other boxes for appearance or when actually eating the meat to judge the taste and tenderness score ?

Especially using a pencil... erasing the original score or just crossing out and re-scoring must occur.... especially for contests with new judges or non-certified judges who may not pay attention to the rules.

What happens in this case ?
Click to expand...

When acting as a TC, you should look over EVERY score card as they come back to you after each judge scores their entries. It is not hard to do - you only have 6 cards to look over. You examine for a few things - including a number that might be way off (a 3 when everyone else gave a 6 or 7) or a number that has been crossed out or erased and a new number re-written.

Also, it is not hard to observe the judges at work and see someone use an eraser. If it happens, just ask why they are doing it...at which time you can inform them that the number has to stay the same, or they may be just re-writing the same number if it's not clear. Also - most contests I've judged use "golf pencils" that don't even have erasers.
 
Going into this weekend as a cook first to judge my first comp, I think I have the attitude that the cooks are trying their best, they paid their money to be there, I'm not there for lunch but to see how good their stuff is (as opposed to how bad it is).

The benefit of the doubt should always go to the cook. Temp is not within their control, appearance, once anything is taken out of the box, isn't in their control. I will try not to bias myself by comparing to what I think I can do, but let each piece stand on its own... otherwise, all brisket gets scored down in taste compared to mine. :)

I'm not planning on giving 9's across the board, but I want to approach the judging from a positive light as opposed to intentionally looking for reasons to mark down. To me, anything below a 5 should be justified to a table captain, and a 2 or 3 is only if it is inedible or just obviously thrown into the box with no care whatsoever. I know how hard the cooks work, and I'm judging to become a better cook.

I personally think every CBJ should have to cook as part of a team at least once!
 
Sounds like the right attitude to me. You always have to give the cookers the benefit of the doubt...score up when in question. Judges should always remember that cooks are working not in a professional kitchen or even at home...they are working in a remote location against a variety of elements - any one of which can adversly affect their final product in a - and MOST of the stuff that comes across you table is still better than anything you'll get in a restaurant.
 
cmcadams said:
Going into this weekend as a cook first to judge my first comp, I think I have the attitude that the cooks are trying their best, they paid their money to be there, I'm not there for lunch but to see how good their stuff is (as opposed to how bad it is).

The benefit of the doubt should always go to the cook. Temp is not within their control, appearance, once anything is taken out of the box, isn't in their control. I will try not to bias myself by comparing to what I think I can do, but let each piece stand on its own... otherwise, all brisket gets scored down in taste compared to mine. :)

I'm not planning on giving 9's across the board, but I want to approach the judging from a positive light as opposed to intentionally looking for reasons to mark down. To me, anything below a 5 should be justified to a table captain, and a 2 or 3 is only if it is inedible or just obviously thrown into the box with no care whatsoever. I know how hard the cooks work, and I'm judging to become a better cook.

I personally think every CBJ should have to cook as part of a team at least once!
Click to expand...

I wish all judges thought that way.
 
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