Don't hate me for askin this.

[Graytwhyte]

I don't want to come off as blasphemous, but I have a question about oven starting a brisket instead of oven finishing. I looked at the other threads for a while to see if this has been brought up, but couldn't find anything.

I would like to know if anyone has tried this, or has heard of it. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE to smoke brisket, but I also love that bark that comes on a smoker finished brisket too. So, do you folks think that if a brisket was started in the oven, say for a couple/few hours, and then transfered to the smoker it would come out with that great bark. More inportantly though, do you think it would turn out just as tender and juicy and delicious as when started in the smoker and finished in the oven. Again, I hope I don't offend anyone by asking, but I just don't know if this would work or if it would break all of the smoking rules that we have all worked so hard to achieve. Thanks, TIMBO.

 

[G$]

i think an oven ring is less appealing than a smoke ring.

 

[BBQchef33]

First and most important.. we wont get offended by someone askin a question..... unless that after sampling, a question something like "did you rub these ribs in your armpit before cooking?". That may offend someone. .... anyway.....

I wouldnt start in the oven, your giving up all time in the smoke, and then theres the theories about smoke flavor/ or smoke rings not happening after 140 degrees. So time in the oven detracts from that. There are ways to get a good bark and tender product without foil. Key is lower temps, for longer times. You just have to make sure your not drying the brisket out with temps over 220. Juices boil out at higher temps, keep the temps at 210 and the juices stay in the meat.

There is absolutely nothing that says you MUST foil the brisket. its just most of us here like to. When you foil, you trade off the great crispy bark, for a more juicy/tender product... faster. The foiling is actually steaming the brisket, which softens the bark. But if you forego the foil, knock down the heat to 210 and cook until tender, you will still have a juicy tender brisket with great bark, it will just take longer. You can also time it so you can foil for a few hours to tenderize and then take it out of the foil and return to dry heat to re-form the bark and finish it off. Adding a good amount of turbinado sugar to the rub will help greatly in the bark formation also. I add some to my spray also.

So skip the idea of starting in the oven, ( i know someone else who does it. ) lower the temps and just allow yourself extra time to do the brisket without the foil. You'll get the bark you want.

 

[Graytwhyte]

Exactly the type of answer I was looking for. Thank you for your answer, and saving me alot of wasted brisket. So what kind of times do you think I should expect without foil? Also, can I still finish in the oven without foil, or it this smoker only? Thanks again, TIMBO.

 

[BBQchef33]

You can finish in the oven without foil too. Put in in a roasting pan on a rack to catch the juices. plan on over 1:45 per lb... when i did a 12 lb packer, it took 20 hrs at 210 and i had it foiled for a few hours in between.


Another trick I forgot to mention, is that you can use a VERY TIGHTLY wrapped plastic wrap around the brisket instead of foil. Wrap it several times. Wrap it in plastic at 165 and remove the plastic at 180. Then finish in the dry heat, checking often for tenderness, not temperature. This technique speeds things along, but does not soften the bark the way steaming in aluminium foil does.

 

[parrothead]

If you must, start in the smoker and finish in the oven. No other way.

 

[Neil]

Listen to the Poobah. He speaks the brisket truth!

 

[jminion]

Phil
I have heard the idea of keeping the pit temps below 220 or you will boil the moisture out of a brisket, I must say that I have never found that to be the case. The moisture in a brisket is from the breaking down of conective tissue that releases it's moisture during the stall. The same 12 pound brisket your taking 20 hours to cook I get done in 14 to 16 hours at pit temps of 235 to 245.
As long as I get the brisket off the cooker at 190 internal I don't find them to be dry. Just an observation.

 

[Mark]

Phil said
"First and most important.. we wont get offended by someone askin a question..... unless that after sampling, a question something like "did you rub these ribs in your armpit before cooking?". That may offend someone."

Yeah; everyone here should already know that technique is reserved for re-heating leftovers.

 

[BBQchef33]

Phil
I have heard the idea of keeping the pit temps below 220 or you will boil the moisture out of a brisket, I must say that I have never found that to be the case. The moisture in a brisket is from the breaking down of conective tissue that releases it's moisture during the stall. The same 12 pound brisket your taking 20 hours to cook I get done in 14 to 16 hours at pit temps of 235 to 245.
As long as I get the brisket off the cooker at 190 internal I don't find them to be dry. Just an observation.

Your probably right. When i was doing the unfoiled briskets experiments, I kept temps down low for fear of drying them out, but if you've proven it dont happen, then we need to try it different next time. I'm always game to cook a brisket.

 

[Jorge]

Phil
I have heard the idea of keeping the pit temps below 220 or you will boil the moisture out of a brisket, I must say that I have never found that to be the case. The moisture in a brisket is from the breaking down of conective tissue that releases it's moisture during the stall. The same 12 pound brisket your taking 20 hours to cook I get done in 14 to 16 hours at pit temps of 235 to 245.
As long as I get the brisket off the cooker at 190 internal I don't find them to be dry. Just an observation.

Your probably right. When i was doing the unfoiled briskets experiments, I kept temps down low for fear of drying them out, but if you've proven it dont happen, then we need to try it different next time. I'm always game to cook a brisket.

I cook with the temp a little low for a couple of reasons, especially with brisket. 1) I'm trying to get that perfect smoke ring. I don't cold smoke but I keep the temp a little low to try and maximize it. 2) Staying low gives me a little cushion for temp spikes when adding fuel or the wind picking up from the wrong direction.

 

[jminion]

Phil
I have tried the low temp long cooks 20 plus hours on brisket and butt and found I like the higher pit temps 225 to 245 as the range, again I use internal temp and feel to decide when I pull them off the cooker. Both brisket and butts come off at 190 internal ( I don't use foil during the cook) then to the dry cooler for 2 to 4 hours. I find I get consistant results using these techniques.

Jorge
Good point, I don't cook on stick burners as often as some but on occasion do use a Klose mobile, I do but brisket and butt on straight from frige and do allow the pit to ramp up to these pit temps with the meat on the cooker. I don't need to worry about heat speaks with most of the cookers I use but while cooking on the Klose with preheated wood I don't notice large spikes much at all.

Your milage may differ based on the cooker your using and your reasoning sounds sound.

 

[Neil]

I'm going through brisket withdrawls reading this thread and I won't be able to do anything about it till next weekend. Off to Indy tomorrow morning for a cousin's wedding.

 

[evilpsych]

sounds like i need more practice.. oh well.. lemme get april 15th behind me (still need to fully fund my IRA for last year.. almost there too!) and I'll have better temps outdoors to play around with the smoker.. Plus i need to do a little bandera modification also.. need a better heat guard... i sometimes end up with a boiling water bowl.. which isnt good.

 

[chad]

Remember that water boils at 212 (sea-level, I know, I know!) so boiling water is not something to get in a sweat-ex over.

 

[evilpsych]

Remember that water boils at 212 (sea-level, I know, I know!) so boiling water is not something to get in a sweat-ex over.

it's kinda hard to maintain that 'thin wisp of sweet blue' if it's masked by several quarts of water flash-boiled to steam... it's hard to tell if it's smoke or steam!!

 

[Solidkick]

Graywhyte's question has me thinking......if I lay my brisket out for 2 hours to warm up some before introducing to the cooker, why couldn't I go from the fridge to the oven at 200* for an hour, then to the cooker, and acheive the same results?

 

[chad]

Remember that water boils at 212 (sea-level, I know, I know!) so boiling water is not something to get in a sweat-ex over.

it's kinda hard to maintain that 'thin wisp of sweet blue' if it's masked by several quarts of water flash-boiled to steam... it's hard to tell if it's smoke or steam!!

Believe me, there is a difference. If you use water in the water pan it IS going to boil - flash to steam, no!

But your mileage may vary.

 

[Graytwhyte]

Graywhyte's question has me thinking......if I lay my brisket out for 2 hours to warm up some before introducing to the cooker, why couldn't I go from the fridge to the oven at 200* for an hour, then to the cooker, and acheive the same results?

Yeah that is an interesting question. Also, something I haven't been able to figure out is that I seem to average a cook time of about 2 hours per pd. And that is pit temps around 200 or above with an additional digital oven thermo. Do you think the placement of the thermo is wrong( it's next to the brisket on the same rack), or do the pit temps just need to be adjusted higher? Thanks for the help, TIMBO.

 

[BBQchef33]

200 is on the low side. i usually do my briskets at 230-245. I put the themo right next to the meat too, so your placement is fine. if your using a probe however, dont stick it thru adn have it checking the temps immedialy below the meat. These is a "heat shadow" there that will give u a high reading.

As far as bringing the meat up to room temps, I dont always do that. i have put cold meat right into the cookers. I believe the extra time in the smoke while coming up to temps just makes that smoke ring even better.