Carolina BBQ Sauces

[1MoreFord]

Link to source of image for credit Rodney Scott's BBQ Sauce Recipe


I have heard of SC mustard sauces for a long time but that now leaves me with questions about the other Carolina sauces, both NC and SC.
Are the Eastern NC vinegar sauces and the vinegar-pepper sauces from SC the same?
How about the light tomato and the Western NC sauces?
Finally, are the heavy tomato yet another breed of sauce?

 

[larry4406]

Interesting.

I do like the Shack Attack but admit it is a bit to vinegar forward for me and family. I dose it with some ketchup and a little bit of Worchestershire sauce.

 

[LYU370]

Are the Eastern NC vinegar sauces and the vinegar-pepper sauces from SC the same?

Looking at his recipe in the link, it looks pretty much like almost every Eastern NC sauce recipe I've seen.

Western NC Lexington sauce is similar, just add some ketchup.

 

[JIMSMOKES]

I'm in the light to heavy tomato area and what I grew up on. The vinegar pepper sure is good as a mop/finish on pork though. Not a fan of the mustard stuff.

 

[Gore]

Sauces do not recognize state lines, nor do they recognize arbitrarily drawn boundaries. Most places have their own recipes and secret ingredients that are incorporated as well, so there is a wide variation. People also move, bringing their recipes with them -- the Salt Lick is one case, where its roots go back to South Carolina mustard sauce. With this in mind, those border lines are very fuzzy. Yes, they do extend north into the other Carolina, but in many locales you will find both vinegar-based sauces, just one is more predominant. The heavy tomato sauce to the west is simply a thicker sauce, which most of the rest of the country is familiar with, rather than the extremely thin vinegar-based sauces. The map does illustrate the wide variety of BBQ that has originated and is still available in South Carolina.

 

[1MoreFord]

Interesting.

I do like the Shack Attack but admit it is a bit to vinegar forward for me and family. I dose it with some ketchup and a little bit of Worchestershire sauce.

IIRC Shack Attack is a sauce of Virginia origin, although VA is just next door to NC, so vinegar sauce seems widespread in the area.

 

[1MoreFord]

Sauces do not recognize state lines, nor do they recognize arbitrarily drawn boundaries. Most places have their own recipes and secret ingredients that are incorporated as well, so there is a wide variation. People also move, bringing their recipes with them.................................

This line of thought is what prompted me to post after seeing the map above.
Arkansas, unlike some places, does not have a singular representative sauce.
The BBQ sauce of my youth is also known as Shack Sauce and it's amid the Western light/heavy tomato type sauces.
We also have a true Eastern vinegar sauce represented here along with a SC mustard sauce and from what I've heard a TX based sauce as well.
Then there are the more mainstream Memphis, St. Louis, and KC style sauces.
The mustard based sauce and some of the, as I called them mainstream, may be Cattleman's or based on them.
Of course, then there are at least two joints who offer six regional styles in a six pack drink holder on the table plus a fire breather version by request only.

 

[ronbrad62]

I can tolerate most any type of sauce, but I prefer the ones that are dominant in vinegar. I do some competition BBQ and it pains me to make it so sweet for the judges, but I definitely use a good vinegar sauce at home. I'll make it a point to try the Shack Attack recipe soon.

 

[LYU370]

I do some competition BBQ and it pains me to make it so sweet for the judges, but I definitely use a good vinegar sauce at home.

That's why I quit judging way back when, couldn't handle how sweet everything was.

I'll make it a point to try the Shack Attack recipe soon.

Let it sit for a week before you use it.

 

[Gore]

This line of thought is what prompted me to post after seeing the map above.
Arkansas, unlike some places, does not have a singular representative sauce.
The BBQ sauce of my youth is also known as Shack Sauce and it's amid the Western light/heavy tomato type sauces.
We also have a true Eastern vinegar sauce represented here along with a SC mustard sauce and from what I've heard a TX based sauce as well.
Then there are the more mainstream Memphis, St. Louis, and KC style sauces.
The mustard based sauce and some of the, as I called them mainstream, may be Cattleman's or based on them.
Of course, then there are at least two joints who offer six regional styles in a six pack drink holder on the table plus a fire breather version by request only.

Over the last two decades, we've seen a huge transformation in the distribution of BBQ sauces and styles, in which things have become truly mixed. I remember the first time I went to North Carolina and had a vinegar-based sauce. It was like nothing I'd ever experienced anywhere. Now, you can find vinegar-based sauces all over the country. Ten years ago, I never saw a mustard-based sauce anywhere but in South Carolina -- well, there were a couple that I tried here and there, but they were absolute rubbish and nothing like you'd find in South Carolina -- Salt Lick being the rare exception, although their BBQ itself is subpar. Now, you can occasionally find mustard sauces in the six-pack drink holders that you mention that can be decent, but this is rare still. There is a great mixing where we can find really good BBQ of just about any style all over the country (and really bad as well). The regions seem to be disappearing. I know where I can get exceptional Texas BBQ in the Carolinas and Carolina BBQ in Texas. I'm really curious as to what happens, if new regions and definitions appear, for instance, or if we're just too mobile a nation. I still think of a few that haven't been so much replicated, both from Alabama, actually, Big Bob Gibson's white sauce and Dreamland sauce which is a combination of tomato and mustard. Any others?

 

[16Adams]

When I first started smoking at the rate we all here do, it was common to be gifted rubs and sauces. One of my Gifts was Piggie Park BBQ sauces. It was delicious, though I never ordered any for myself. Maurice seemed to be having controversy swirling. Regardless, the sauces were quite good. Here is link to a knockoff if you don't have it on a shelf nearby. Used to see it on Amazon

Copycat Piggie Park BBQ Sauce Recipe | CDKitchen.com

Piggie Park has perfected their version of Carolina gold barbecue sauce. Make it at home with this copycat recipe.

www.cdkitchen.com

 

[larry4406]

That's why I quit judging way back when, couldn't handle how sweet everything was.


Let it sit for a week before you use it.

If not longer. Had some doctored Shack Attack at near 6 months and BAM was it awesome! In the fridge festering the whole time.

 

[Gore]

When I first started smoking at the rate we all here do, it was common to be gifted rubs and sauces. One of my Gifts was Piggie Park BBQ sauces. It was delicious, though I never ordered any for myself. Maurice seemed to be having controversy swirling. Regardless, the sauces were quite good. Here is link to a knockoff if you don't have it on a shelf nearby. Used to see it on Amazon

Copycat Piggie Park BBQ Sauce Recipe | CDKitchen.com

Piggie Park has perfected their version of Carolina gold barbecue sauce. Make it at home with this copycat recipe.

www.cdkitchen.com

Yeah, Maurice's Piggy Park has some good sauce. There are a number of them. The problem is that they smoke in some and in others they just reheat. The ones they smoke at are really good. The other little issue is that Maurice was still fighting the Civil War to some extent until not too long ago. Let's just say the first time I went in, I was quite shocked from some of the stuff displayed, and I would not have felt too comfortable if I was not of European stock. A few years later, it appeared a younger generation had taken over and they had a more welcoming outlook. The place was definitely sanitized and much more welcoming. After that, the place seemed fully integrated with a mix of servers, cooks and customers. People were willing to forgive or at least not hold the current generation responsible for the actions of past generations. They also did a great deal of community outreach to try to heal their past reputation and it seems to have helped. Although it appears to be an institution dead center in the middle of mustard-BBQ sauce country, I have never seen them mentioned in any lists of BBQ places to go, and I wonder how long it will be before they do get some mention.

 

[1MoreFord]

Over the last two decades, we've seen a huge transformation in the distribution of BBQ sauces and styles, in which things have become truly mixed. I remember the first time I went to North Carolina and had a vinegar-based sauce. It was like nothing I'd ever experienced anywhere. Now, you can find vinegar-based sauces all over the country. Ten years ago, I never saw a mustard-based sauce anywhere but in South Carolina -- well, there were a couple that I tried here and there, but they were absolute rubbish and nothing like you'd find in South Carolina -- Salt Lick being the rare exception, although their BBQ itself is subpar. Now, you can occasionally find mustard sauces in the six-pack drink holders that you mention that can be decent, but this is rare still. There is a great mixing where we can find really good BBQ of just about any style all over the country (and really bad as well). The regions seem to be disappearing. I know where I can get exceptional Texas BBQ in the Carolinas and Carolina BBQ in Texas. I'm really curious as to what happens, if new regions and definitions appear, for instance, or if we're just too mobile a nation. I still think of a few that haven't been so much replicated, both from Alabama, actually, Big Bob Gibson's white sauce and Dreamland sauce which is a combination of tomato and mustard. Any others?

With 2 exceptions, the in joints in AR I'm thinking about and their respective sauces are older and most are multi-generational.
In central AR there is/was:
Sims; it's known for their mustard sauce, which I suspect is Cattleman's Carolina Gold. Been around for years and is in at least the 2nd generation.
Lindsay's; is the one with TX roots. In their 2nd or third generation.
The Whole Hog Cafe has the 6 sauces, one of which is a mustard/tomato sauce. It is a newer joint formed from a comp team.
Then there is Smokin' in Style which is nearly a copy of Whole Hog. Must have been a member of the same comp team.
There was the Shack, started in the late '30's, which was the Western NC type sauce followed along by a host of copy cat joints. A family member still runs a joint.
The Dixie Pig is the one of the Eastern NC sauces and located in Blytheville, AR. A local institution mentioned in Peace, Love, and BBQ
Jones BBQ in Marianna is another Eastern NC sauce and is the oldest black owned BBQ joint in AR and may be the oldest in the U.S.
The last one I can think of is Craig's BBQ in De Vall's Bluff which is also in their 2nd or 3rd generation and has a sauce I can't pigeon hole. It's a fruit based sauce available in mild or hot. Available for sale at the joint. Once available in local groceries.

 

[1MoreFord]

Ooops, double tap.

 

[LYU370]

I thought I read somewhere that Smoke Shack in Maumelle, AR still has the original Shack sauce. Forget if it was a family member or former employee that runs it. My nephew is not a fan of the Whole Hog Cafe.

 

[1MoreFord]

I thought I read somewhere that Smoke Shack in Maumelle, AR still has the original Shack sauce. Forget if it was a family member or former employee that runs it. My nephew is not a fan of the Whole Hog Cafe.

The Smoke Shack used to have and use the Shack recipe. However, I've heard they no longer use it. I don't know, haven't been there in a while. Don't know if they are family members or former employee's either. Not sure the same owners have it either. Supposedly they used to sell the stuff by the gallon to the passing truckers and made good money doing so.
HB's BBQ, in SW Little Rock, is run by family members and still uses the original sauce. Unfortunately they have no concept of preparing?, holding?, or serving meat. I've only eaten sammies from there and they are like sawdust on buns covered in cabbage and sauce. Everywhere else I've ever eaten that used Shack sauce puts them to shame.
HB's is the last joint I'm aware of that still uses Shack Sauce exclusively. At one time it was the only sauce I knew.
I can understand folks not liking Whole Hog. It's run by old comp cookers and they teach their franchisee's much in that style. Also, they don't serve hot, temp wise, BBQ. It's closer to room temp but it's well cooked and tender. Not juicy, but not dry like HB's. It's also pulled pork when Central AR has traditionally been a chopped BBQ area. That old Shack influence from Carolina. They cook on gas fired Ole Hickory's so not the most smokey and not the most bark. Shack's butts like like big chunks of coal before chopping.
Their ribs are the best I've had in Central AR. Not overcooked, or under cooked and tough.
Another thing with Whole Hog is, AFAIK, all but the original on Cantrell Rd. is a franchise and, as such, some variation exists.

 

[Robert]

The Smoke Shack used to have and use the Shack recipe. However, I've heard they no longer use it. I don't know, haven't been there in a while. Don't know if they are family members or former employee's either. Not sure the same owners have it either. Supposedly they used to sell the stuff by the gallon to the passing truckers and made good money doing so.
HB's BBQ, in SW Little Rock, is run by family members and still uses the original sauce. Unfortunately they have no concept of preparing?, holding?, or serving meat. I've only eaten sammies from there and they are like sawdust on buns covered in cabbage and sauce. Everywhere else I've ever eaten that used Shack sauce puts them to shame.
HB's is the last joint I'm aware of that still uses Shack Sauce exclusively. At one time it was the only sauce I knew.
I can understand folks not liking Whole Hog. It's run by old comp cookers and they teach their franchisee's much in that style. Also, they don't serve hot, temp wise, BBQ. It's closer to room temp but it's well cooked and tender. Not juicy, but not dry like HB's. It's also pulled pork when Central AR has traditionally been a chopped BBQ area. That old Shack influence from Carolina. They cook on gas fired Ole Hickory's so not the most smokey and not the most bark. Shack's butts like like big chunks of coal before chopping.
Their ribs are the best I've had in Central AR. Not overcooked, or under cooked and tough.
Another thing with Whole Hog is, AFAIK, all but the original on Cantrell Rd. is a franchise and, as such, some variation exists.

Hey Joe,

You ever try Nick's BBQ and Catfish in Carlisle? I never have but I know a lot of folks seem to think that place is a must stop while driving that stretch of I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis. Richard Allin, columnist for the Arkansas Gazette then Arkansas Democrat after Gannett sold out, wrote fondly of The Shack numerous times and published The Shack recipe several times as well. I never saved the recipe but some folks claim it was a close copy cat. There is a new place called Wright's open in Little Rock and if it is anything like the original up here, will soon have legions of fans.

 

[LYU370]

A while back I reduced the Shack recipe to a reasonable amount based on the newspaper recipes. Turned out pretty good, but Grapette no where to be found around here, so I used water.

Vinegar sauce

I was wondering what everyone's favorite example of a vinegar sauce is. I have to admit I kinda lean more towards the sweet sauces that usually do well in KCBS contests, so I don't have much experience with the more traditional vinegar sauce. What say you? Thanks,

www.bbq-brethren.com

 

[1MoreFord]

Hey Joe,

You ever try Nick's BBQ and Catfish in Carlisle? I never have but I know a lot of folks seem to think that place is a must stop while driving that stretch of I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis. Richard Allin, columnist for the Arkansas Gazette then Arkansas Democrat after Gannett sold out, wrote fondly of The Shack numerous times and published The Shack recipe several times as well. I never saved the recipe but some folks claim it was a close copy cat. There is a new place called Wright's open in Little Rock and if it is anything like the original up here, will soon have legions of fans.

I've eaten at Nick's numerous times. There aren't a lot of places to eat in Carlisle.
They are definitely a busy joint and I know why. As I said there aren't many places to eat in Carlisle and there are certainly many worse BBQ joints around, but they tend to over sauce although it's a pretty good sauce. Their brisket is chopped, and crumbly, overcooked(?), and drowning in sauce. At this moment I don't recall their pork all that well for some reason. With that said, I prefer their catfish. However, the BBQ they produce will make most folks happy. Their service staff was eye candy back then.
There were three BBQ places when I was eating there. There was Nick's, a mobile trailer parked in front of the local grocery whose name I forget, and a mobile home converted to BBQ run by a nice old black lady named Nichols. Of the three I preferred the mobile trailer(even with a very limited menu) although Nichols was a close second at the time. If you notice that Nichols and Nick's sound similar it's because that according to some local legend Nick's learned to BBQ from the Nichols family and then parted ways. Yes, the BBQ tasted similar too.
All my rambling aside I'd eat there again if hungry, but not to make a special trip.

I missed Richard's publishing of the Shack recipe however I did get one from some incarnation of our local paper(s) and one from a local radio personality named Dick Price who was enough of a local celebrity he could have been gifted the recipe by someone. The Dick Price version is for a larger amount and contains more ingredients but may be the original as it's the one mentioning Grapette soda among other reasons. Surprisingly both versions I have taste very much alike and true to my memory of the original period clones I consumed.

ETA - Almost forgot to comment on Wrights. I have heard of their roots in NW Arkansas and that they are well regarded there; even to the point of getting some "best of" press about BBQ in Arkansas. I have yet to try them but will get around to it in my usual slow ole phart way.