Bandera question - new owner

[wasilvers]

Hello All,

A few weeks I found a used Bandera for sale (craigslist) for $50. I couldn't beleive my good fortune. It is in very good shape. A little surface discoloration above the fire pit. My first step was to read the Bandera 101 document here. I did a version of the heat deflector in the bottom as that seemed to be what everyone else suggested as a must do. I direct the heat just about halfway across the smoking chamber (and along the water pan). I also raised the fire grate up for airflow and formed a type of basket to hold the charcoal together. It seemed to work very well, keeping the charcoal burning all together. I also pressure washed the inside to clean out the 1/2 inch of fat buildup in the bottom. A re-season and I was ready to try the first cook

I had about 6 lbs of lump left over that I wanted to get rid of. I had 2 full bags of charcoal handy as well as some leftover in another bag. I started with a whole chicken. The fire burned nicely, the temps were around 220 to 225, so I was smoking along.

The problem I found was that no matter where I set the intake vent, the charcoal burned red hot all over. I had to add a full chimeny every 45 to 50 minutes just to keep the fire going. I accidentally missed timed one refill by 20 minutes, and the fire just about went out at 1 hour and 15 minutes. I used the lump, about 4 leftover lbs of , and a full 18 lb bag (kigsford was the charcoal brand) - then had to finish the chicken in the oven (because I was tired of adding charcaol!)

Questions:
1. Is this a normal rate to consume charcoal in the bandera - 28+ lbs in 4 hours? Seemed like a lot to use to me. (I cooked a 11.5 lb brisket in my ECB (gourmet with mods) on less than 8lbs of charcoal this weekend)

2. Is this a capable wood burner? and are fire stoking times the same as charcaol?

I'm thinking of doing something over the fire chamber to 'direct' the heat to the smoking chamber better.

If this is the normal fuel consumption rate, that is fine. I'll just make sure I smoke enough meat to make it worth all the fuel!

Thanks for any help!

Will

 

[Bigdog]

The Bandera is a fuel hog. Most of us use charcoal to got the fire going and then switch to hardwood. I can go 45-60 before refueling that way, and only have to add one log at a time. I have never cooked only with charcoal on one so I don't know how much charcoal you go through but that seems excessive. Great buy on yours.

Also, how were you monitering the temps? The door thermo is famous for being off.

 

[butts a fire]

That does sound a bit excessive, For a competition running two banderas I still only go through about 3 21# bags of kingsford and that is running almost 24 hours. I normally use chunks of wood along with it and that is with out any kind of basket or mod in the fire box besides the raised grate. The Dera will eat a lot of fuel but that number does sound high.

 

[jsimonson0]

The problem I found was that no matter where I set the intake vent, the charcoal burned red hot all over. I had to add a full chimeny every 45 to 50 minutes just to keep the fire going. I accidentally missed timed one refill by 20 minutes, and the fire just about went out at 1 hour and 15 minutes. I used the lump, about 4 leftover lbs of , and a full 18 lb bag (kigsford was the charcoal brand) - then had to finish the chicken in the oven (because I was tired of adding charcaol!)

Questions:
1. Is this a normal rate to consume charcoal in the bandera - 28+ lbs in 4 hours? Seemed like a lot to use to me. (I cooked a 11.5 lb brisket in my ECB (gourmet with mods) on less than 8lbs of charcoal this weekend)

2. Is this a capable wood burner? and are fire stoking times the same as charcaol?

I'm thinking of doing something over the fire chamber to 'direct' the heat to the smoking chamber better.

If this is the normal fuel consumption rate, that is fine. I'll just make sure I smoke enough meat to make it worth all the fuel!

Thanks for any help!

Will

I did some of what you did when I got my SKD (a more-recent version of the Bandera). One thing you might want to try is taking a grate and covering it with foil. You can move it up and down at the top and control the size of the cooking chamber like this, requiring less fuel for a smaller space to get up to temps. I also did the gasket mod, which helped retain heat tremendously. One thing I'm going to do next is place a sheet of steel over the firebox to keep the heat from going into the top of the firebox. I've gotten 2-3 hours out of my home-made charcoal basket with lump and gotten proper temps in the process. I think the sheet idea will help deflect heat into th cooking chamber, which is where I need it anyway. I usually use wood, but I've got a cheap source of lump charcoal locally (40# for $15)...

 

[JohnMcD348]

In my SKD and Bandera, both heavily modded, I can get about 2-3 hours with a combination of lump and briquette in it. I am using the SpiceWine Fire basket with the dividers. I also started using sheet steel over the firebox to help close off the top under the lid. I cut it to fit with 2 sheets covering over the basket. I also slide it all the way under the lips of the firebox so it helps to seal off and channel the heat into the smoke chamber. Also, I use the sandbox in the water pan to help with heat retention.
I think, and I may be wrong, that the added steel of the basket in combination with the thermal mass of the sand in the pan helps to greatly reduce the amount of air needed to maintain the temps.

Before I added the deflector in the smoke chamber and the fire basket, I couldn't get or keep a temperature in there to do much of anything with. Does your fire basket have dividers or a channel to help control the burn time of the charcoal?

 

[jt]

I usually start with charcoal and then switch to splits or logs that are beer can diameter and around 7-12 inches long. I only add charcoal then to maintain a good coal base.

You can do a modified Minion method. At the beginning of the cook I put some unlit charcoal in and then pour the lit ones on top of them. During the cook I keep adding unlit charcoal at the firebox door end and then any impurities as they light slowly are burnt up as they pass through the flames on the way to the smoke chamber. This way I'm able to keep my coal base going all the time.

I don't think I use a whole bag of charcoal even for a 12-15 hour brisket cook, but once again I burn a lot of logs & splits.

 

[jsimonson0]

I think, and I may be wrong, that the added steel of the basket in combination with the thermal mass of the sand in the pan helps to greatly reduce the amount of air needed to maintain the temps.

Before I added the deflector in the smoke chamber and the fire basket, I couldn't get or keep a temperature in there to do much of anything with. Does your fire basket have dividers or a channel to help control the burn time of the charcoal?

My basket is the cut-and-bend using expanded steel, sans dividers. I also use the minion-style method of lit on top of unlit, and fresh lump at the door end as needed. I seem to recall getting almost 3 hours with a basket of lump, but it's been a while. Maybe I'll have to validate that this weekend...

 

[G$]

Questions:
1. Is this a normal rate to consume charcoal in the bandera - 28+ lbs in 4 hours? Seemed like a lot to use to me. (I cooked a 11.5 lb brisket in my ECB (gourmet with mods) on less than 8lbs of charcoal this weekend)

2. Is this a capable wood burner? and are fire stoking times the same as charcaol?

I'm thinking of doing something over the fire chamber to 'direct' the heat to the smoking chamber better.

If this is the normal fuel consumption rate, that is fine. I'll just make sure I smoke enough meat to make it worth all the fuel!

Thanks for any help!

Will

As has been answered, the Bandera is a fuel hog. BUT, your numbers are still a bit high.

Sunday I used one full bag (20 pounds) of Rancher Briquettes in my 10 hour cook. That included bringing the pit up to temp, and an hour or so of 'cool down' where the pit gradullay went from 250 to 200 because i stopped adding fuel. I also used probably 8-10 fist size pieces of hickory throughout.

As point of comparison for this cook, I was using my baffle and a raised fire grate but no charcoal basket. It was my first time using Rancher, and I wanted to play around with t a bit. I added unlit briq to the intake side every 30 minutes, and pushed the lit coals toward the smoke chamber side. My intake vent was generally in the 50% position, except a few times I opened i to 100% to ensure quicker igniotion.

One thing I noticed from your post was you mentioned your baffle extending all the way toward the far end of the smoke chamber. IMO it does not need to be this long. Mine extends maybe 2 inches toward the bottom of the water pan, and it still does the job well enough to actualkly create the hot spot on the other side of the water pan. You might try shortening it.

 

[JohnMcD348]

I missed the part about the baffle being so big. I would shorten it a bit. Try using the Baffle template that's here in the files section. It'll give you a pretty fair idea of the size it needs to be. It just needs to be large enough and extend far enough into the chamber so as to direct the heat down and away from the opening of the firebox. The water pan takes care of the rest. Without the baffle, the heat essentially just flows up the firebox side of the chamber and out the top. With yours being so far out, you're basically doing just the opposite and directing most of the heat up the other side and out the top.

You could also experiment with the sheet metal and just create a plate that would site over where the water pan goes and would have holes in it to allow the heat to rise through. That would negate the need for a water pan and a baffle.

 

[CajunSmoker]

On my BSKD I put 8# unlit briquettes on the rack on the end by the air damper and then add 1 4# lit chimney on the side by the smoke chamber. I can get about 4 hours like this. I had a plate made to put on top of the firebox, but it did not seem to help much. I also stopped using water in my water pan and just foil the pan and leave about a 1" air space under the foil between it and the bottom of the pan. Temps come up much faster and I use a lot less fuel. After the initial 4 hours I usually will alternate between added splits of wood or more charcoal every hour until I am through. On a long cook with butts or briskets or both I usually use up about 20# of Royal Oak and maybe a dozen small splits of wood.

I also added a gas burner inside my smoke chamber under the water pan so when I wrap my meat and am not trying to get any more smoke on it I can go to gas if I want to.

 

[Mr. Bo]

Just keep em coming folks. I'm soaking this up right along with wasilver.:icon_blush:

 

[wasilvers]

WOW! I get back from work and you guys have tons of suggestions...

First off, I use two temp gauges, an oven thermometer and a remote thermometer. So I'm pretty solid on their accuracy.

A gasket mod on the smoke chamber is probably in order - the door just 'looks' a little off. There are some gaps that really show when the wind blows right. I've done this mod to my little smoker, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

My charcoal basket could use some dividers, but it was half-a$$ed made right before the first smoke anyway. I could do much better by measuring first :wink:

As to the baffle in the smoke chamber - It now it makes sense why I totally burned a piece of meat I threw on with the chicken. It was fine until I moved it close to the left side. Then it was toast! I'll trim the sides of the baffle to be closer to the fire side. Two inches you say? I have maybe 6 or 7... Does your baffle deflect down or is it straight out (90 degrees from the side)?

I've wanted to try a deflector in the fire chamber - directing the heat to the smoke side too, but just haven't pulled the trigger on the purchase (I'm cheap :biggrin: ) Has anyone who did this notice any significant change to fuel consumption or temps?

So for now, I run alot of fuel - Experimenting is a big part of BBQ - Right down my alley! Thanks for the ideas, I'll have to post an update after the next smoke!

 

[wasilvers]

Also, about how big are your charcoal baskets? ie do they fill the fire chamber or ? How much charcoal does it hold? I read about a basket lasting 3 hours or longer.

I'm just trying to get a goal so I know when I have achieved "average" burn times.

Thanks a million!

Will

 

[G$]

Does your baffle deflect down or is it straight out (90 degrees from the side)?

Down, probably a 90 degree angle or so, JUST toward the bottom of the water pan. Believe me it is enough to direct the heat. If yours is 6 inches now, try cutting it in half, or lopping 2 inches off.

In general, you may want to do one modification at a time so you can correlate cause and effect better.

 

[wasilvers]

Thanks for the update. I'll do some trimming and try it out this weekend!

 

[slat]

You can look at this thread and see if it gives you any ideas. If the pics don't show up send me a PM and I'll get them to you.
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7401

 

[Jorge]

As JohnMcD348 suggested, try the template in the files section. If you cut and bend based on that you should be in good shape.

 

[ibait2fish]

Well, we're kinda in the same boat....here's what I did...

1) Baffle modification.. a winner...I originally used aluminum flashing...big mistake..it
actually gets hot and droops...during breakin it closed off most of
the heat inlet...had to breakin again.
2) Door gasket...I used high temperature silicone...a winner.
3) firebrick...4 in the firebox (1 just below the outlet), 4 in the cook
chamber...a winner, but will take a little longer to heat.
4) Raised the grill...a winner..I just used some sleeves from drywall
anchors.
5) charcoal basket...a winner...I just used some light weight expanded
steel, bent it by hand, no welding, no muss.
6) Heat shield on the firebox lid...used 2 aluminum baking sheets...a
winner.
Now...things to do...
1)replace the firegrate with one made of heavier expanded steel, so
that I can remove the ash pan alone.
2) seal those goof ball voids in the top of the firebox body..so far I've
only used fiberglass rope.
3) Of particular interest to you...extend the stack to improve the draw.
The factory beany lacks sufficient power...you can almost see it
happen in use...and, if you use it long enough, really see it in the
burn scar in the inside of the firebox lid, above the outlet. For this,
good luck...5" stack is too loose...4" fits inside the hole...a 5"-4"
reducer w/ a 5" stack works well...just adjust the length..remember
that you can always shorten, but can't cut longer.

I also use a guru..6+ burns at 250 on a 70 degree, no wind day..

Good luck!!