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Done with the stick burners

JokerBroker said:
After reading through 7 pages of this thread, I don't think anyone's mind is going to be changing about what type of smoker they like to use. I would just like to say to all of you who might be thinking of buying an offset at some point, either buy a good one made of at least 1/4" thick steel or don't waste your money. I didn't see where the OP actually mentioned what model smoker he had but I saw the name Pecos mentioned by Czar. Regardless, the OP did say that when he added a split, the temp would spike from 250º to 400º if he didn't adjust the vents. I don't need to know the brand to determine he's using a COS. One split won't spike the temps in a quality smoker much more than about 5%. In my opinion, this thread should have been titled "Done with poorly designed stick burners". I think someone who is highly skilled in fire management can get decent results from a COS but in the case of offset smoking with wood, people learning the craft are better off with really good equipment because they are much easier to use.
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That's right. I was cooking on the Pecos, which IMO is the BEST side offset smoker under $500. It is not 1/4" thick but it is well made.

I understand your position but I am loathe to blame the cooker as there are many other variables - moisture content of the wood, skill of the cook, etc. and my position is probably supported since Im sure there are thousands of happy pecos users who have no problems at all with their cooker. :thumb:

bonz50 said:
not to be a nitpick, honest question, how is this different than adding a split every hour in a stick burner?
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very valid question - it is and it isn't.
with roaring lump I still had to go out there and add a chimney every hour or so. the heat output is linear- I mapped it and can post it if requested. so I didn't have to sit there and baby sit the cooker for several minutes. which means one hour was one hour.

with the offset, it was really every 30 minutes to 45 minutes and several times inbetween trying to keep it from getting too cold or too hot. it also took up to 10 minutes everytime I added a log to bring the temp into compliance

so from an effort perspective - if an oven is a 1/10 in effort and a stick burner is 10/10 in effort, burning embers would be a 4/10.

hope this helps
 
el luchador said:
That's right. I was cooking on the Pecos, which IMO is the BEST side offset smoker under $500. It is not 1/4" thick but it is well made.

I understand your position but I am loathe to blame the cooker as there are many other variables - moisture content of the wood, skill of the cook, etc. and my position is probably supported since Im sure there are thousands of happy pecos users who have no problems at all with their cooker. :thumb:



very valid question - it is and it isn't.
with roaring lump I still had to go out there and add a chimney every hour or so. the heat output is linear- I mapped it and can post it if requested. so I didn't have to sit there and baby sit the cooker for several minutes. which means one hour was one hour.

with the offset, it was really every 30 minutes to 45 minutes and several times inbetween trying to keep it from getting too cold or too hot. it also took up to 10 minutes everytime I added a log to bring the temp into compliance

so from an effort perspective - if an oven is a 1/10 in effort and a stick burner is 10/10 in effort, burning embers would be a 4/10.

hope this helps
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sounds like maybe some others may be on to something that maybe the cooker itself may be the source of the consistency problem. I had similar issues with my WSM when i first got it, took about a year of learning the cooker before I could just add fuel and forget about it.
 
bonz50 said:
sounds like maybe some others may be on to something that maybe the cooker itself may be the source of the consistency problem. I had similar issues with my WSM when i first got it, took about a year of learning the cooker before I could just add fuel and forget about it.
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Im thinking about this, and it seems the two mechanisms to make a stick burner be more consistent are a larger cooker (more to heat up) and a thicker cooker(also more material to keep heated).

So should we conclude that people should not even consider stick burning unless they have $1500+ to spend on a big 1/4" cooker?
 
el luchador said:
Im thinking about this, and it seems the two mechanisms to make a stick burner be more consistent are a larger cooker (more to heat up) and a thicker cooker(also more material to keep heated).

So should we conclude that people should not even consider stick burning unless they have $1500+ to spend on a big 1/4" cooker?
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while I don't disagree with the premise, some of the cheaper cookers I've seen (OK Joe Longhorn as an example) can be made to be decent with mods, but your $500 longhorn ends up with $3-500 in mods plus time to perform the mods. so I guess ~$1500 isn't that out of line once you consider the cost of mods
 
if you add sticks and you temp jumps that much you need to adjust the size of your splits. but that just goes back to another point you were trying to make about it taking too much effort/time to split the splits again.
 
pjtexas1 said:
if you add sticks and you temp jumps that much you need to adjust the size of your splits. but that just goes back to another point you were trying to make about it taking too much effort/time to split the splits again.
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Curious question, as I've been trying to figure this out mathematically in my head ever since I started cooking BBQ as each time its different it seems LOL.. larger splits would cause a larger temp jump?

I always assumed adding smaller splits would have a quicker/higher temp jump than adding a larger log.
 
My opinion, an offset needs to be 1/4". Less than that requires too much work. It can be done but I think even I would throw in the towel. Sometimes when I'm at Academy I will look at the Old Country smokers. The fit/finish is horrible and the metal is thin. I can see how it would be a lot of work. No way it holds much heat. On my offset the coal bed can be almost gone and it will still be 200*. Thats not going to happen with thin metal. The temp is going to reflect the size of your fire.
 
blazinfire said:
Curious question, as I've been trying to figure this out mathematically in my head ever since I started cooking BBQ as each time its different it seems LOL.. larger splits would cause a larger temp jump?

I always assumed adding smaller splits would have a quicker/higher temp jump than adding a larger log.
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that's what I would have thought as well, more surface area=more flame=more heat

but I don't know if its correct.
 
bonz50 said:
that's what I would have thought as well, more surface area=more flame=more heat

but I don't know if its correct.
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ive tested this so I can speak to this one- I also thought that larger splits should have less temp gain than smaller splits because they have more wood that is not ignited, even though they have more area.

well, I am here to let you know, you put a big split in the box and it catches ? - game over. once it catches flames its going to be way hotter than a smaller split because it has more surface area releasing BTUs into the cooker.
 
SDAR said:
I started cooking with my egg around 2005. I had a heavy Oklahoma Joe prior to that that I never really learned because I didn’t take the time. The egg made it it so easy. I still have that same egg. Next, I bought a Traeger Texas. It was even easier. I plugged it in and tried to set it and forget it just like the commercials said. Like a post above, I could never let any of those cookers be. I guess you can say that I never “trusted” any of them.

To this day, I’ve had a Pitmaker Vault, Yoder YS640, PBS and a Gateway drum on top of all of the above cookers. I never learned to trust any of them...and was able to go to sleep or the kids or grandkids “games”. I have always needed to know “where it’s at”.

I’ve won several GC’s and RC’s at competitions while winning at Sam’s, IBCA, LSBS and KCBS competitions. I’ve qualified for and attended the American Royal Invitational as well as the World Food Championship when it was in Las Vegas.

I have always been too anal to allow myself more than probably more than 2 hours without checking my cooker.

What I am saying I guess, is if you trust whatever tool you choose to do the cooking for you; you are more of a relaxed cooker than I have ever have been despite the multiple attempts and the thousands of dollars I have spent in that pursuit.

Me? I give up. I’ll sit by the fire and feed it.
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I'm like you with my drum... I'm looking into the tappecue which will let you see your temps on your phone from anywhere as long as your house has internet. Will give me peace of mind. Already have a wireless unit but still haven't trusted my drum to go all night yet....
 
el luchador said:
ive tested this so I can speak to this one- I also thought that larger splits should have less temp gain than smaller splits because they have more wood that is not ignited, even though they have more area.

well, I am here to let you know, you put a big split in the box and it catches ? - game over. once it catches flames its going to be way hotter than a smaller split because it has more surface area releasing BTUs into the cooker.
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Yeah. makes for a good discussion. I can see where your going with this. Smaller splits probably would have a faster temp swing, but a larger piece of wood would take longer to reach higher temps but would ultimately burn longer and create more heat..
 
DRMSMKER said:
I'm like you with my drum... I'm looking into the tappecue which will let you see your temps on your phone from anywhere as long as your house has internet. Will give me peace of mind. Already have a wireless unit but still haven't trusted my drum to go all night yet....
Click to expand...

that tappecue is not a bad price for the unit with 4 probes. but a couple of things.

1. does it interface through the tappecue cloud or just through your home router? if their cloud is down does that mean your unit wont work?
2. does it have an option for fan control?

a heatermeter is about the same price and it does not use a cloud server. you can access the heatermeter ip address directly through a port,
and it will control a fan for even more temp control.

blazinfire said:
Yeah. makes for a good discussion. I can see where your going with this. Smaller splits probably would have a faster temp swing, but a larger piece of wood would take longer to reach higher temps but would ultimately burn longer and create more heat..
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that's what Ive experience. yes.
 
Rockinar said:
My opinion, an offset needs to be 1/4". Less than that requires too much work. It can be done but I think even I would throw in the towel. Sometimes when I'm at Academy I will look at the Old Country smokers. The fit/finish is horrible and the metal is thin. I can see how it would be a lot of work. No way it holds much heat. On my offset the coal bed can be almost gone and it will still be 200*. Thats not going to happen with thin metal. The temp is going to reflect the size of your fire.
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this seems to be a recurring theme here. Maybe you guys have a point :-D

not that I can afford an expensive unit (I don't like Q THAT much) but Im really loving the clean clean clean smoke of embers right now so I doubt that I will ever crave a stick burner again.

but as they say, never say never :becky:
 
DubfromGA said:
They sound like what you are looking for in a grill that that smoke, grill, seer. You'll make amazing brisket, pulled pork, ribs, wings, chicken, steaks and the best pizzas on the planet.

Make sure you get one with a lifetime warranty.

You will never regret a BGE, Kamado Joe, Primo or other.

Absolutely anything that you can cook in an indoor oven can be cooked with ease on your ceramic kamado.


You can also go the route that many, myself included, have gone....buy a Akorn kamado from Char Griller. Can be had for $299.

Air flow is the same as it's ceramic cousins....it is slightly more finicky if you overshoot your target temp, so more care is needed in how you start your fires for slow'n'low cooks. That being said....once you lock into the temp you are golden.

I bought an Akorn and found myself using that bad boy several times a week for three years. I simply wore it slam out. My family went nuts over my grilling in ways they'd never done before. In my opinion.....it's the best grilling money I've ever spent.
Click to expand...
Actually, much better option for a metal kamado, is the Bubba/Broil King Keg. https://www.broilkingbbq.com/grills/keg
 
el luchador said:
Im not going to disagree with you. but, keep an open mind and try it. you might like it :wink:
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I have done, I've nothing against it, and I have no horse in this race. If it's your hobby or passion and you aren't loving the process then there is no reason in the world I would want to convince you to do other than that which makes you happy.

As a chef by profession my daily life has been to make the best of whatever tools and ingredients are at hand. I was just pointing out that charcoal and embers are different, and you seem to like cooking over embers.

With the increasing popularity of stick burners, many have forgotten the great art of cooking over logs freshly burnt to embers and shovelled into a pit. It's a killer way to smoke food that is also a huge favorite of mine when i've had the chance to attempt it, and the results are fabulous.
 
One Drop said:
I have done, I've nothing against it, and I have no horse in this race. If it's your hobby or passion and you aren't loving the process then there is no reason in the world I would want to convince you to do other than that which makes you happy.

As a chef by profession my daily life has been to make the best of whatever tools and ingredients are at hand. I was just pointing out that charcoal and embers are different, and you seem to like cooking over embers.

With the increasing popularity of stick burners, many have forgotten the great art of cooking over logs freshly burnt to embers and shovelled into a pit. It's a killer way to smoke food that is also a huge favorite of mine when i've had the chance to attempt it, and the results are fabulous.
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yes sir! as I said earlier in the thread, the best heat and smoke out of my stick burner was when it was down to the glowing embers and there was no smoke emanating from the cooker. It just smelled like heat and it was awesome. When I put my hand over the exhaust the smell was just pure.

now, Im not going to pretend like I know anything about anything, so maybe you can help.

in my limited understanding wood becomes embers when everything else is burned off and all that's left is carbon? and lump charcoal is carbonized wood?

now the heat I got out of the glowing lump charcoal smelled and acted like the ember stage of wood.

Pray, tell, what are the differences between red hot fresh embers and red hot lump charcoal?

(btw, I still have a bunch of pecan logs left. Guess whats going to be made out of them :-D )
 
Charcoal is made by super heating wood in an environment lacking oxygen, where as log embers are...burned down logs from a fire.
 
JokerBroker said:
On a side note, nice work el luchador on becoming a Full Fledged Farker in only 2 months! Now... :focus:
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wow thanks. I have no idea what that means but it sounds like a good thing :-D

sudsandswine said:
Charcoal is made by super heating wood in an environment lacking oxygen, where as log embers are...burned down logs from a fire.
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(if you take a cooled down wood ember and a piece of cold lump charcoal. how chemically different are they?)

lol. what I mean is aren't they both just almost pure carbon?


bonz50 said:
does not compute


fixed that for ya :thumb:
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hahaha. Don't hate :becky:

im not saying, Im just saying.
 
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