KCBS Next Steps/Goals/Focus ?!?!?!?

Deal with the small group of ****ty judges and trash the scoring average seating program.

A judge training program to get every judge on the same page (none of this "I was taught to..." stuff)

An Organizer tool kit to help organizers attract sponsors to their event and provide guidance on what constitutes a great contest.

Big, corporate sponsorships that can inject money into TOY at at least a couple levels (overall and 15 or less minimum - 10 or less would be great too), as well as into individual contests so that prize pools can be bigger, providing more value for teams.

Those are 3 things, but can be handled by different sections of the board, and overseen by Emily.

How about trying to get back some of the events that have folded? Sams Club series comes to mind.

For me the top 3 things I want to see in the coming months are:

1) The BOD to cede control of the organization to the CEO. If the BOD feels they hired the right person for the job then let her implement her vision for the organization and support her in this effort. I can't think of any successful companies where the vision for the organization came from the board of directors and not the CEO. The quote "nobody has every built a statue for a committee" comes to mind, a BOD is just a glorified committee.

2) Figure out why KCBS is loosing contest and come up with a way to reverse this trend. I think they need to find a better financial model for promoters but that is just my opinion. The CEO needs to look at the problem, talk to all the constituents then find and implement a solution.

3) Figure out why KCBS is has fewer competition teams and do something to fix it. I think there are a lot of reasons for this but mostly it is the inability to attract new teams to fill in the spots of a normal churn but, once again, this is something the CEO needs to look into and get moving in the opposite direction.

Michigan BBQ Fan said:

I've heard nothing but good things about the Sam's Club events. It did seem like a good opportunity for a corporate sponsor with nationwide locations to connect with the BBQ community and KCBS.

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I did one sams club event and it was my least favorite event I ever did by far.

I’m sure someone will say “how come”?

Spacing for cooksites was too tight.

Everyone was overly up tight.

NO WATER. Had to run to the store spicket for any water we needed.

Nobody with sams club had a clue what was happening or cared. It was like we were in the way.

Just a thought for growing the sport/community, why not partner up with the national bbq league and televise it!?!? They got good personalities. Run it like a new bbq pit master series. A lot of people have no idea that this is an actual sport. And there are tons of people who are competitive. Just my 2 cents.

egorham said:

For me the top 3 things I want to see in the coming months are:

1) The BOD to cede control of the organization to the CEO. If the BOD feels they hired the right person for the job then let her implement her vision for the organization and support her in this effort. I can't think of any successful companies where the vision for the organization came from the board of directors and not the CEO. The quote "nobody has every built a statue for a committee" comes to mind, a BOD is just a glorified committee.

2) Figure out why KCBS is loosing contest and come up with a way to reverse this trend. I think they need to find a better financial model for promoters but that is just my opinion. The CEO needs to look at the problem, talk to all the constituents then find and implement a solution.

3) Figure out why KCBS is has fewer competition teams and do something to fix it. I think there are a lot of reasons for this but mostly it is the inability to attract new teams to fill in the spots of a normal churn but, once again, this is something the CEO needs to look into and get moving in the opposite direction.

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I can tell you from a wannabe competitor's point of view exactly what is discouraging new team formation. These things greatly discourage me:



1. The un-level playing field when it comes to meat. Hell, I can't afford Wagyu briskets or Snake River Farms pork butts/ribs. The "Guinea Pig" contests seemed like a great idea, where all teams were on the same level playing field in terms of meat quality. But those contests seem to have gone by the way side, probably because top teams cried about not being able to use higher quality meat than most other teams could afford.



2. Stupid garnish. KCBS says it's "all about the meat", but it's really not. It's a lot about the garnish. Allowing people to pretty-up their boxes with garnish adds an unnecessary burden on cooks.


3. The way KCBS contests have gravitated toward producing BBQ that almost no one would want to cook/eat at home. I'm a (former) KCBS judge who simply got tired of eating over-salted, over-spiced, overly sweet, MSG-filled meat that would overpower most people's palate before they got done eating a meal. The "get the judges' attention with one bite" philosophy is a canker sore on the face of KCBS.


I'd really love to compete, but the above three things give me great hesitation.

Sam's Club events were a missed opportunity to make a bigger impact. I thought the organization in Harrisburg was decent.
Public interest was zero.
Imo kcbs should pursue bringing it back but should figure out how to involve the public more.
A people's choice comp would go a long way.

In general comps need to lower entrance fees. Most are far too high and are pricing themselves out of existance.
The old response of comp bbq is expensive is true but you might get more folks out that normally don't compete out if that entrance fee is lower. Such as local folks wanting to take a shot at big shots.
There are comps I would have done in the past if the entrance fees were lower.


One thing all teams could do that would help is stop sitting in the trailers come out and visit with the public or new teams. Make them feel welcome. Let them know you appreciate their support.
Answer their questions. Show them your pit.
When you have a free moment. I am not asking you to compromise your cook. I am asking you to make an effort to show your appreciation for folks coming out to support an event. Instead of packing up after brisket turn in leave up your setup until after awards. Try to make an effort to speak with folks after turn in.
I get your tired. We all need to make more of an effort to show folks we appreciate their support.

I am sure I will get negative feedback on some of my opinions. If you got better ideas then share them please.

TBoneMac said:

I can tell you from a wannabe competitor's point of view exactly what is discouraging new team formation. These things greatly discourage me:



1. The un-level playing field when it comes to meat. Hell, I can't afford Wagyu briskets or Snake River Farms pork butts/ribs. The "Guinea Pig" contests seemed like a great idea, where all teams were on the same level playing field in terms of meat quality. But those contests seem to have gone by the way side, probably because top teams cried about not being able to use higher quality meat than most other teams could afford.

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In actuality those contests probably gave the top teams an advantage, and most of them probably knew it. Give a top 10 team a skinny $ muscle and they'll find something good to turn in and/or won't even worry about it. Give that same butt to an average team and they may bomb the category before the meat ever hits the pit. I suspect the biggest issue was finding sponsors to donate meat, the added cost to buy meat if it wasn't donated, and the volunteer time required to sort the meat to level the playing field.

2. Stupid garnish. KCBS says it's "all about the meat", but it's really not. It's a lot about the garnish. Allowing people to pretty-up their boxes with garnish adds an unnecessary burden on cooks.

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It's optional. I wouldn't recommend it but I know a few braver souls that have tried it and done OK. I know others that tried it once and got burned. Say it takes an hour, and costs $15-20 for greens... In comparison to the other expenses and the required time for everything else ata contest is it really a burden?

3. The way KCBS contests have gravitated toward producing BBQ that almost no one would want to cook/eat at home. I'm a (former) KCBS judge who simply got tired of eating over-salted, over-spiced, overly sweet, MSG-filled meat that would overpower most people's palate before they got done eating a meal. The "get the judges' attention with one bite" philosophy is a canker sore on the face of KCBS.

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You know why cooks tend to turn that in? It wins.

I'd really love to compete, but the above three things give me great hesitation.

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I think the KCBS should focus on the "experience".

Forget about whether you came in DAL in any category, how was your overall experience?

Would bring in a lot more millennials.

Sure, I spent over $1,000 per contest and faced a ton of hurdles and scoring problems and politics and such, but the experience was great!

Make them feel good and they'll keep coming back!

Did you pull the trailer in with minimal effort? Give'm a trophy. Were you quiet by 11p so as not to bother other teams? Give'm a trophy. Turned in your boxes on time? Another trophy.

Focus on feelings, we need more of that in all facets of life, even BBQ!

Bill-Chicago said:

I think the KCBS should focus on the "experience".

Forget about whether you came in DAL in any category, how was your overall experience?

Would bring in a lot more millennials.

Sure, I spent over $1,000 per contest and faced a ton of hurdles and scoring problems and politics and such, but the experience was great!

Make them feel good and they'll keep coming back!

Did you pull the trailer in with minimal effort? Give'm a trophy. Were you quiet by 11p so as not to bother other teams? Give'm a trophy. Turned in your boxes on time? Another trophy.

Focus on feelings, we need more of that in all facets of life, even BBQ!

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While I know this was tongue in cheek and meant in jest, I think there's some truth overall to the "experience" aspect of it. Not everyone is getting a call. Not everyone is going to cash a check. Not everyone deserves to. Everyone can have a good time, and the more that contests do to improve the experience of the cooks and public at an event, the more value people find in it, even if they're losing.

Going out and having some beers with your buddies while you play with fire and cook some meat (that when you started you know you ate the crap out of) has a certain amount of value. For a team, that might be $200-300.

If we assume that most newer teams are spending somewhere in the range of $500-600 on a contest ($250 entry fee, $200 Costco run (meat, pans, foil, etc), a few bags of charcoal, some wood and a cooler of beer), KCBS and the contests, who want and need new blood to come in and stick with it need to bridge that $400 gap. Larger prize pools is something I see discussed a lot. That would certainly help. Team dinner Friday night would add something.

Contests can get creative with different options, but if more value is created for the amateur cooks then more of them will start and stick with it because even if they're losing - it's worth it to them to keep going.

TBoneMac said:

I can tell you from a wannabe competitor's point of view exactly what is discouraging new team formation. These things greatly discourage me:



1. The un-level playing field when it comes to meat. Hell, I can't afford Wagyu briskets or Snake River Farms pork butts/ribs. The "Guinea Pig" contests seemed like a great idea, where all teams were on the same level playing field in terms of meat quality. But those contests seem to have gone by the way side, probably because top teams cried about not being able to use higher quality meat than most other teams could afford.



2. Stupid garnish. KCBS says it's "all about the meat", but it's really not. It's a lot about the garnish. Allowing people to pretty-up their boxes with garnish adds an unnecessary burden on cooks.


3. The way KCBS contests have gravitated toward producing BBQ that almost no one would want to cook/eat at home. I'm a (former) KCBS judge who simply got tired of eating over-salted, over-spiced, overly sweet, MSG-filled meat that would overpower most people's palate before they got done eating a meal. The "get the judges' attention with one bite" philosophy is a canker sore on the face of KCBS.


I'd really love to compete, but the above three things give me great hesitation.

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I completely disagree that there is an un-level playing field due to meat. Prime briskets and commodity pork wins. Cook it right and it will score. The "guinea pig" style contests, the only one that has ever been successful are the ones BPS put on. Because you got quality meat sponsored. And even at that, it did not level the playing field, it just shuffled it. Just because everyone was cooking the same brand of meat didn't mean everyone gets the same quality. Some people get ribs with shiners and pork butts with gashes through the money muscle. How does that level the playing field? I find it funny that I hear people chatter about how meat provided contests will fix everything but we had one of those in my region and it failed because it couldn't get enough teams? Where was everyone at who was making noise that this is the solution to the problem? I didn't support it. They begged me to come several times. I flat out told them, I trim meat from the comfort of my kitchen at home. I'm not driving to a comp and spending money at it without leaving the house knowing I have the best stuff I can procure for that weekend. After all, this is a competition and I will take every advantage I can to put myself in a position to win whether it be high dollar meat or commodity meat.
These didn't go away because we "cried" about not using meat most other teams couldn't afford. Competition BBQ has never been cheap. Ever. Not at least if you come to win. You might want to analyze all of the costs associated with it before jumping in. If you cannot afford a wagyu brisket, you are really gonna cringe when you see the costs of everything else teams buy.


Which brings to the next point. Part of being a good cook is being able to select good meat. You are not being outspent at contests, you are being out worked. Forcing teams to cook provided meat takes away the cook's ability to select what they want in a piece of protein. This is the KCBS Master series. Maybe backyard contests would be better suited for teams that want this versus putting a handicap on everyone else?

Garnish:

It's optional. If you think it's "stupid" then don't use it. Actually it would be an UN-necessary burden on cooks to get rid of it. It keeps my meat in place where i put it, without it everything would move around and turn into a hot mess. Again, this is the master series, and we have appearance scores for a reason. A good cook can not only cook a good piece of protein but give a good presentation of it also. No different than a chef's plating at a restaurant. Since the legalization of Kale in KCBS it's not even an issue. I build 4 kale boxes in 25 minutes. It's not even a concern of mine. If it is to you, then maybe the backyard style contests are better suited for you?



3. We turn in the stuff we do because that's what scores. It's that simple. Competition BBQ isn't about what we want to cook and eat at home and it never has been. It's 2 different things. Cooking at home is backyard bbq. The "get the judges' attention with one bite" philosophy exists because judges only take one bite. What do you propose to change this? Last contest I had a judge talk to me after judging asking why teams are trying so hard to make their brisket taste so "beefy". My response was 3 words. Because. It. Wins.



I don't say this to be a jerk but I'm a straight forward person. Do you really want to compete? If so, these 3 things are quite petty in the grand scheme of things.

midwest_kc said:

While I know this was tongue in cheek and meant in jest, I think there's some truth overall to the "experience" aspect of it. Not everyone is getting a call. Not everyone is going to cash a check. Not everyone deserves to. Everyone can have a good time, and the more that contests do to improve the experience of the cooks and public at an event, the more value people find in it, even if they're losing.

Going out and having some beers with your buddies while you play with fire and cook some meat (that when you started you know you ate the crap out of) has a certain amount of value. For a team, that might be $200-300.

If we assume that most newer teams are spending somewhere in the range of $500-600 on a contest ($250 entry fee, $200 Costco run (meat, pans, foil, etc), a few bags of charcoal, some wood and a cooler of beer), KCBS and the contests, who want and need new blood to come in and stick with it need to bridge that $400 gap. Larger prize pools is something I see discussed a lot. That would certainly help. Team dinner Friday night would add something.

Contests can get creative with different options, but if more value is created for the amateur cooks then more of them will start and stick with it because even if they're losing - it's worth it to them to keep going.

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^^This^^ When you boil it down it's why SCA is popular. It's not difficult to get $100 of "fun value" at an SCA event. $1000 wort of "fun value" is a higher bar.