No more TOD

rob g · 02-21-2019, 07:20 PM

It appears the judge seating program has been discontinued in favour of random seating of judges. A motion at the Feb BOD meeting passed unanimously.

Burnt at Both Endz · 02-21-2019, 08:03 PM

No reason for score sheets then...…..

Slamdunkpro · 02-21-2019, 11:58 PM

The score based seating program was flawed regardless of the good intentions:
1: You can't average random events: every contest is unique: there aren't enough constant factors to establish a baseline.
2. Organizers hated it.
3. TOD's TOA's didn't decrease

Pappy Q · 02-22-2019, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob g

It appears the judge seating program has been discontinued in favour of random seating of judges. A motion at the Feb BOD meeting passed unanimously.

A good move in my opinion.

midwestmindz · 02-22-2019, 06:09 AM

I didnt mind the program took it out of the reps hands

Slamdunkpro · 02-22-2019, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midwestmindz

I didnt mind the program took it out of the reps hands

That was it's one plus. Hopefully the random draw will keep that aspect.

Jorge · 02-22-2019, 07:53 AM

I never learned the details of how the new seating procedure, or application, seated judges so I don't have a strong opinion. I haven't taken the time to look at all contests where it was used, and compared that to contests prior to see what if any change occurred.

For KCBS, the biggest issue is that they are currently not at risk of influencing the outcome of events where money is at stake.

I think the scoring data collected over the years has a great deal of value, after competent analysis. I don't think focusing on a scoring average to seat judges is the way to go however.

ModelMaker · 02-22-2019, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slamdunkpro

The score based seating program was flawed regardless of the good intentions:
1: You can't average random events: every contest is unique: there aren't enough constant factors to establish a baseline.
2. Organizers hated it.
3. TOD's TOA's didn't decrease

That was my opinion all along, there was no way past judging sessions would predict how I scored in a future event. The only way that ever made sense was if the same 40 cook teams cooked the same contest week after week and it was set up that my table always got the same teams entry. Even then the variables are huge.
And I'm sorry, there will ALWAYS be a TOA and TOD, somebody wins, somebody loses.
ED

Slamdunkpro · 02-22-2019, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge

For KCBS, the biggest issue is that they are currently not at risk of influencing the outcome of events where money is at stake.

That's an angle I hadn't really considered - you should run for the Board

Jorge · 02-22-2019, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slamdunkpro

that's an angle i hadn't really considered - you should run from the board

ftfy

Pappy Q · 02-22-2019, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slamdunkpro

That's an angle I hadn't really considered - you should run for the Board

IMO...the most vulnerable part of the whole process is the inputting of the judges scoresheets into the computer. Sometimes the Rep does it, sometimes an extra judge does it and sometimes a volunteer from the Organizers does it. As for seating, the only way that is not an attempt to manipulate the scoring is a totally random generated by computer.

DoctorCueNC · 02-22-2019, 02:44 PM

Random will cause more TOD and TOAs. If you actually see what Mark has posted about the statistical analysis of the program and seating before and after it did help. Wasn’t ever designed to completely remove just to diminish. Mark also noted it wasn’t perfect but just better. BOD voted against wishes of Rep committee supposedly as well.

GrillBillie_D · 02-22-2019, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorCueNC

Random will cause more TOD and TOAs. If you actually see what Mark has posted about the statistical analysis of the program and seating before and after it did help. Wasn’t ever designed to completely remove just to diminish. Mark also noted it wasn’t perfect but just better. BOD voted against wishes of Rep committee supposedly as well.

Where can we see any of the data posted? This has been my concern about just getting rid of it for the sake of not liking it. Who is evaluating the effectiveness of the program?

DoctorCueNC · 02-22-2019, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrillBillie_D

Where can we see any of the data posted? This has been my concern about just getting rid of it for the sake of not liking it. Who is evaluating the effectiveness of the program?

I’m sure if you contacted Mark Gibbs of Checkered Flag 500 BBQ team he could get you more info as he is the one who has done it. I’ve seen some of the info posted to judge groups on Facebook he is a member of.

CBQ · 02-22-2019, 09:15 PM

I preferred having it in place. Judges aren't completely random, some do consistently score high or low.

02-21-2019, 07:20 PM	#1
rob g Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 03-29-14 Location: Baden, Ontario, Canada	No more TOD It appears the judge seating program has been discontinued in favour of random seating of judges. A motion at the Feb BOD meeting passed unanimously. __________________ Kamado Joe Classic UDS KCBS MCBJ, KCBS CTC

02-21-2019, 11:58 PM	#3
Slamdunkpro Babbling Farker Join Date: 02-27-07 Location: Northern VA	The score based seating program was flawed regardless of the good intentions: 1: You can't average random events: every contest is unique: there aren't enough constant factors to establish a baseline. 2. Organizers hated it. 3. TOD's TOA's didn't decrease __________________ Aporkalypse Now Competition BBQ team Thanks to our sponsors: Wusthof Trident USA, Creekstone Farms, Myron Mixon Smokers & The BBQ Guru MABA 2014 Team of the Year Spicewine Tandem - "The Beast", 2 Vulcan V33's & 1 V9 Brinkman modified upright, Weber Kettle(s); Meadow Creek Pr-24, Super Stealth Mode black & Night Vision Red Thermopens ----------------- MABA - (Mid Atlantic BBQ Association) President KCBS Certified Judge - #23289

02-22-2019, 07:53 AM	#7
Jorge somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 01-23-04 Location: DFW, San AntonioTx	I never learned the details of how the new seating procedure, or application, seated judges so I don't have a strong opinion. I haven't taken the time to look at all contests where it was used, and compared that to contests prior to see what if any change occurred. For KCBS, the biggest issue is that they are currently not at risk of influencing the outcome of events where money is at stake. I think the scoring data collected over the years has a great deal of value, after competent analysis. I don't think focusing on a scoring average to seat judges is the way to go however. __________________ You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. --Frank Zappa Keeping Valspar in BBQ, one cook at a time. Recipient of a Huggies box! Shut up, and cook!!!!

02-22-2019, 02:44 PM	#12
DoctorCueNC On the road to being a farker Join Date: 04-16-15 Location: Angier, NC	Random will cause more TOD and TOAs. If you actually see what Mark has posted about the statistical analysis of the program and seating before and after it did help. Wasn’t ever designed to completely remove just to diminish. Mark also noted it wasn’t perfect but just better. BOD voted against wishes of Rep committee supposedly as well. __________________ DoctorCueNC - MCBJ - 270 Smokers KC - Grilleye - Oakridge BBQ - B&B Charcoal

02-22-2019, 09:15 PM	#15
CBQ is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 01-11-09 Location: Cumberland, RI	I preferred having it in place. Judges aren't completely random, some do consistently score high or low. __________________ Chris Rhode Hog BBQ "The Most Dangerous Team in BBQ" - Jon Vallone KCBS, KCBS CBJ, NEBS

02-21-2019, 08:03 PM	#2
Burnt at Both Endz Babbling Farker Join Date: 07-14-13 Location: freeman,mo Name/Nickname : Calvin	No reason for score sheets then...…..

02-22-2019, 06:09 AM	#5
midwestmindz On the road to being a farker Join Date: 06-22-13 Location: USA Name/Nickname : Midwestmindz	I didnt mind the program took it out of the reps hands