First try at brisket box input

As I said, my comment was being nit-picky. Small. Largely inconsequential. Yet,in my opinion the squared end detracted from the appearance. I believe the rules do not say anything about judging appearance except of how the meat is cut. Judge what's in the box is the rule. If someone could be scored down because their cuts are uneven, don't you think that this concept can be applied to other aspects of the brisket? Or are you complaining about how "any judge who marks down..." for some other reason?
 
Technically (if following the current rules) one can neither judge up nor down since 1) there is no longer a "starting place", and 2) judges are to pick the single term which best describes product before you. ie, excellent, very good, above average, average, .....
 
Chenernator said:
Aside the from the direction to avoid judging the smoke ring because it can be artificially induced, there isn't a rule on this. Does a squared up slice look as good a complete slice? I don't think so. That being the case, it's going to impact appearance scores, either consciously or subconsciously.
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You shouldn't compare it to a "complete" slice. KCBS is not comparative judging, so does it look as good doesn't enter the equation.

I use the word complete because you did, but even that isn't a complete slice. Whether you trim before or after the cook, you aren't getting a full width slice from a flat in a comp.

That being said, I agree that it could affect things subconsciously. It shouldn't, but it could. Same with pretty greens. Sure, the meat is what's to be judged, and you shouldn't be knocked down for sloppy kale/parsley, but if the pretty stuff makes the meat look better, you're getting a lift from good rabbit food.
 
West River BBQ said:
As I said, my comment was being nit-picky. Small. Largely inconsequential. Yet,in my opinion the squared end detracted from the appearance. I believe the rules do not say anything about judging appearance except of how the meat is cut. Judge what's in the box is the rule. If someone could be scored down because their cuts are uneven, don't you think that this concept can be applied to other aspects of the brisket? Or are you complaining about how "any judge who marks down..." for some other reason?
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If the squared off cuts are uneven, then go ahead. But scoring a team down because they didn't turn in a "complete slice" is not following the rules of judging. On top of it, boxes like that are common practice.
 
I think it varies depending on where you are at.....if you read enough stories you will hear all kinds of things that surprise you....but as for me, we ALWAYS trim the sides of our slices to make them fit the way we want.

that said, here is a brisket box we turned in last year that finished 3rd with a 174.85......5 out of 6 9's on appearance.
 

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Judge what is in the box, and not the tips that aren't. If the cuts are ragged, ding the entry. Deducting points just because the slices are squared up isn't any different than taking points because burnt ends aren't in the box.

The OP may have the best 'first box' I've ever seen. I wish mine had looked that good!
 
Jorge said:
Judge what is in the box, and not the tips that aren't. If the cuts are ragged, ding the entry. Deducting points just because the slices are squared up isn't any different than taking points because burnt ends aren't in the box.

The OP may have the best 'first box' I've ever seen. I wish mine had looked that good!
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I agree.....my first brisket box.....man oh man, when I got done with it, I threw it on the ground a couple of dogs walked by and instead of eating it, they hiked up their legs and took a piss. :becky:




just kidding of course......but it was very bad.
 
Jorge said:
Judge what is in the box, and not the tips that aren't. If the cuts are ragged, ding the entry. Deducting points just because the slices are squared up isn't any different than taking points because burnt ends aren't in the box.

The OP may have the best 'first box' I've ever seen. I wish mine had looked that good!
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I'm with ya. That's a great first box. I just went back and looked at the first brisket box I ever turned in. It sucked!
 
rob g said:
Burnt ends don't have to go in the box but slices don't either. Taste both and only put your best meat in the box. We get boxes with only burnt ends come across the judging table and they do just as well as slices if they are done right. If either one is poor it will pull the score down.
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I like this comment. However, what constitutes the perfect burnt end? I know slices have the pull test and bend test for doneness, but not sure what exactly would keep me from putting burnt ends in the box as it relates to the doneness. I know how I like my burnt ends, but I don't know that everyone likes them cooked to the same "tenderness".
 
manmeatbbq said:
However, what constitutes the perfect burnt end? I know slices have the pull test and bend test for doneness, but not sure what exactly would keep me from putting burnt ends in the box as it relates to the doneness.
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 😁 More often than not I've had brisket boxes come to me with either the slice or the burnt end being less than desirable and pulling the box score down. KCBS, I believe, is now promoting "mouth feel" when it comes to determining tenderness along with the pull test. Maybe I missed something but I'm not sure if the bend test is considered a KCBS judging criteria for brisket. As far as burnt end standards it is up to the individual judge to determine what they like. Personally, I like a burnt end that melts in my mouth and tastes like beef. If it tastes like gravy or too salty it turns me off. But then again i love the rendered fat on the brisket too that most guys trim off.
 
rob g said:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 😁 More often than not I've had brisket boxes come to me with either the slice or the burnt end being less than desirable and pulling the box score down. KCBS, I believe, is now promoting "mouth feel" when it comes to determining tenderness along with the pull test. Maybe I missed something but I'm not sure if the bend test is considered a KCBS judging criteria for brisket. As far as burnt end standards it is up to the individual judge to determine what they like. Personally, I like a burnt end that melts in my mouth and tastes like beef. If it tastes like gravy or too salty it turns me off. But then again i love the rendered fat on the brisket too that most guys trim off.
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I have also heard that they are instructing judges to use the pull test and mouth feel. Personally, I've never seen a judge lay a slice of brisket over their finger while judging, but apparently some were.
 
manmeatbbq said:
I like this comment. However, what constitutes the perfect burnt end? I know slices have the pull test and bend test for doneness, but not sure what exactly would keep me from putting burnt ends in the box as it relates to the doneness. I know how I like my burnt ends, but I don't know that everyone likes them cooked to the same "tenderness".
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Exactly why I quit turning them in 3 years ago. There is no test given for burnt ends during the judging class and every single judge has a different version of what they consider a good burnt end.
 
midwest_kc said:
I have also heard that they are instructing judges to use the pull test and mouth feel. Personally, I've never seen a judge lay a slice of brisket over their finger while judging, but apparently some were.
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No, but they do fold them over on the plate to see if it breaks or just folds over. Essentially showing the same thing. Common practice observed and discussed.
 
West River BBQ said:
As I said, my comment was being nit-picky. Small. Largely inconsequential. Yet,in my opinion the squared end detracted from the appearance. I believe the rules do not say anything about judging appearance except of how the meat is cut. Judge what's in the box is the rule. If someone could be scored down because their cuts are uneven, don't you think that this concept can be applied to other aspects of the brisket? Or are you complaining about how "any judge who marks down..." for some other reason?
Click to expand...

I think I understand what you are trying to say, however i do not agree. That sound much like the brisket judge who says he will mark down because no fat on brisket or the other that says he will mark down because there IS Fat. Same argument on burnt ends. If you are already thinking the squared off is detracting from appearance then you are going in with pre conceived opinions and are not judging each box on it OWN merits. The rules do NOT say you cant square off so each box should be judged according to the rules and without personal opinions.
 
what I'm getting ready to say I have heard others say they have experienced the opposite.

but me, most times when I taste my brisket and I think it is great, it usually scores well. I know some folks talk about doing well on briskets they thought were awful etc......but for me, when we've had great slices and what i consider to be excellent burnt ends, we usually wind up getting a call. so I dont know if that means my palate is similar to alot of judges or what, or if it's just blind luck......but either way, my decision on whether to turn in burnt ends or not, boils down to whether or not they taste great and have a great chew to me.....I have no idea on any other way I could try to base my decision to include them or not.
 
For those that never turn in burnt ends...do you even cook the point at the comp or just leave it at home? Do you just buy flats or still buy packers?
 
Pappy Q said:
For those that never turn in burnt ends...do you even cook the point at the comp or just leave it at home? Do you just buy flats or still buy packers?
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I'd like to know this, but I got as feeling ill just cook and eat them there. .
 
Blanton said:
No, but they do fold them over on the plate to see if it breaks or just folds over. Essentially showing the same thing. Common practice observed and discussed.
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I will admit, I'm one that folds them over.

WHY you ask....

So that they FIT in the SMALL squares assigned.

Nothing more nor less to it....
 
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