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Done with the stick burners

el luchador said:
Ive always found it interesting that a lot of the global smoked food in other parts of the world use charcoal and not wood. could it be that wood smoked food is an acquired taste?
Click to expand...

They use charcoal out of convienance just like everyone else who uses charcoal, even bbq'ers.

Just to be clear what is your definition of "embers" again?

I have large cookers of almost every type. Stick burner, insulated cabinet, and uninsulated charcoal smokers.

In general, everyone loves the "Q" no matter which cooker I use. I have blind tested stick burner vs cabinet many times and stick burner has won almost every single time. We are at over a 50 test subjects (more than that but being conservative) and can only remember a handful (less than 10, for sure) preferring the charcoal cookers. I may do this semi-scientifically to get real numbers since I cook on both many times, same meat/prep/temp.

Does this mean I wanna get rid of my charcoal cookers? No. They have their place and that is a HUGE place. Convienance is awesome especially when sleep is concerned.




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Rockinar said:
But the fact is nobody is lining up for BBQ at 3AM at any place that does not use offsets. And thats for a reason.
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Good marketing, having prior exposure on television and being in an awesome hipster foodie clique that enjoys people that don't shave and drink craft beer?? :p :bow:
 
Jason TQ said:
Good marketing, having prior exposure on television and being in an awesome hipster foodie clique that enjoys people that don't shave and drink craft beer?? :p :bow:
Click to expand...

There goes my theory. I thought it was because all the line up and wait places wrapped their brisket in foil/paper and braised it tender :becky:
 
Beentown said:
They use charcoal out of convienance just like everyone else who uses charcoal, even bbq'ers.

Just to be clear what is your definition of "embers" again?

I have large cookers of almost every type. Stick burner, insulated cabinet, and uninsulated charcoal smokers.

In general, everyone loves the "Q" no matter which cooker I use. I have blind tested stick burner vs cabinet many times and stick burner has won almost every single time. We are at over a 50 test subjects (more than that but being conservative) and can only remember a handful (less than 10, for sure) preferring the charcoal cookers. I may do this semi-scientifically to get real numbers since I cook on both many times, same meat/prep/temp.

Does this mean I wanna get rid of my charcoal cookers? No. They have their place and that is a HUGE place. Convienance is awesome especially when sleep is concerned.




Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Wood embers are embers from wood
Lump embers are embers from lump

In your comparisons were you comparing wood vs briquettes or wood vs lump, and in either case was the charcoal roaring or oxygen deprived?
 
Sorry to say but I am trying to replicate the best I have ever had and that was franklins. My first job was at a BBQ joint in central Texas and I can't get away from that smell of wood fire. To each his own, but for me wood is the way to go. If franklins tasted that good on charcoal I would be trying to copy that. But it isn't.
 
el luchador said:
Wood embers are embers from wood
Lump embers are embers from lump

In your comparisons were you comparing wood vs briquettes or wood vs lump, and in either case was the charcoal roaring or oxygen deprived?
Click to expand...
Me thinks no matter what variables I say were compared there would be a "reasoning" no matter the results. I think it's just you or the very few like you that prefer coals over true stick burning not figuring the other factors (cost, ease of use, etc....). Based on flavor most would prefer foods produced by a properly ran stick burner, in my and seems many heres experience.

We use lump in our charcoal burners. All hot and fast cooks (plenty of O2). Almost everyone still prefers wood, real wood, with moisture in it....12-15% is our happy place for most species.

The last cook was chuck roasts. Lump only, no wood added vs. cherry in a stick burner. Both cooking at 300 degrees.

The taste subjects all preferred the stock burner food. Said something was missing from the "lump only" sample.

Just as an FYI we are doing these tests because we are taking our show bigger, much bigger. So to make the best choices for us, including cooking equipment and materials we are testing recipes and said equipment/materials. We are taking the outcomes to produce a new menu and finalize all of our equipment choices.

The outcome is we are going to keep using both charcoal cookers and stick burners.

Set and forget (blower controlled) charcoal burners using wood chunks for sleeps sake. Stickburner for short cooks and times when we can take the time to tend the fire.

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I've always been a stick burner, and still am. But El Luchador has a point: many forms of grilling and smoking traditionally make use of glowing embers/charcoal for the cook rather than burning wood.

For example, a traditional North Carolina pit for cooking pork has two parallel chambers, one for burning wood down into embers, and one in which to shovel the embers under the pork. All the cooking is done by the embers, not by burning wood.
 
Maybe some of you stick burners can help me out here. If lump charcoal is lump because it is wood that is not completely burned to ash, then it should still give you a smoked taste in your bbq similar to burning stick wood. If you are burning lump charcoal made from white oak it should still have some of what makes it white oak. I realize that it is not the same as the complete process of burning sticks of wood in your smoker, but it will flavor your bbq, somewhat like the wood it was made from. Not trying to really make a point with my posts on this thread, just trying to learn something here. Thanks
 
JokerBroker said:
Charcoal is for heat and wood is for flavor. Having said that, the quality of the raw food and the seasonings are far more important than the heat source and the biggest thing is getting the food off of the heat at the right internal temperature.
Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing with any of your points. It's interesting though that I just got a Uuni Pro pizza oven. What they recommend is put down some charcoal to get a steady heat basis. Then when you're getting ready for a Neapolitan pizza (900F), throw on some small splits to bring the fire up.
 
bcm1947 said:
Maybe some of you stick burners can help me out here. If lump charcoal is lump because it is wood that is not completely burned to ash, then it should still give you a smoked taste in your bbq similar to burning stick wood. If you are burning lump charcoal made from white oak it should still have some of what makes it white oak. I realize that it is not the same as the complete process of burning sticks of wood in your smoker, but it will flavor your bbq, somewhat like the wood it was made from. Not trying to really make a point with my posts on this thread, just trying to learn something here. Thanks
Click to expand...
Moisture in the wood is the main difference but also when you burn a log of hardwood you have chemicals being burnt off that have already been burnt off in lump during the process to make it charcoal.

Alcohols
Benzene
Zinc
Methane
Potassium
Sulfur
Sodium
Magnesium
ETC...

Basically, wood burns and some chemicals dissolve and some chemicals attaches to other chemicals present in the meat (myoglobin and such). Some of those important hardwood chemicals are aromatic polymers. Love me some cherry and hickory aromatic polymers....;)


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el luchador said:
yes, ive been cooking with wood recently, trying to love it, but cant.
Click to expand...

El,

I couldn't agree more. A few years ago purchased a Lang, so excited I could hardly stand it. The Honeymoon wore off real fast when I had to wake up every couple of hours to feed it wood.

Smokey
 
Thank you for taking the time to share this information.

I smoked a pork butt on my 18.5 WSM Using B&B oak lump charcoal only. I wrapped it when the internal was @ 170 degrees. Took it to 200 degres, removed it from the smoker, and let it sit wrapped for a couple of hours before pulling. It had that great white oak taste, but overall wasn't much bark on it. I actually liked the flavor it had but one of my family members stated that it needed more smoke so I am now adding very small chunks of white oak & hickory to the lump embers. My family members seem to like it much better. Anyway, as I stated I'm only a backyard guy. Thanks
 
Last edited:
Talkin about the differences between sticks and charcoal, I often see a similar tension just amongst stick burners on this site (like me).

What I mean is that many of us stickburners focus on minimizing El Luchador's issues with sticks -- getting a bigger pit, making it out of thicker steel, including a bigger firebox, insulating the firebox, etc. All with the goal of getting more stable temps, having to add wood less frequently, being able to sleep longer, or at least fuss with the pit less frequently, at night. Sometimes also with the goal of using less wood.

But all these pit attributes work to create a more stable temp by creating a bigger thermal mass. In other words, the bigger, thicker steel maintains a more stable temp as against the sticks that are tossed in from time to time. So I keep wonderin, doesn't that mean the hot steel is serving as an oven and cookin the meat apart from the smoke of the sticks? In other words, as we increase the size, thickness, and efficiency of our smokers, aren't we cookin more with an oven and less with a smoker?

I don't know the answer, but I'd sure like to understand it. I'm guessing it's probably a matter of balance, as with most things in life. Using a cheap, thin steel smoker that consumes lots of wood probably isn't the answer; but using a super-insulated, super-efficient pit likely isn't the answer either. As Aaron Franklin says, you need good air and smoke flow thru the pit.
 
OklaDustDevil..
I have the cooker I think you are referring to. It drafts very hard. No stale air.

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I’ve only cooked on my new stick burner a few times (ribs, wings and brisket); it’s a Pecos by the way. For $400 not perfect but pretty well made IMO. I’ve burned post oak splits in it from B&B each time. I also have three WSM’s (one of each size model). I personally don’t really care what others think as it’s all about what I like as well as my guest. The WSM’s are soooooo much easier to use between the two. Pecos requires a ton of effort but I don’t mind if I’m dedicated to the cause. Could never do an overnighter on a stick burner though. Personally, I thought the brisket I made on the Pecos was better than any I’ve ever made on my WSM’s. At the same time, my wife, sister and I all preferred the ribs I make on the WSM over those I made on the Pecos. Wings tasted exactly the same but I got much crisper skin on the WSM because of the vertical heat with water pan removed. I still need to cook a lot more on my stick burner and it can be a huge liability if I’m not mentally up for it. However, I have zero issue with any of the BBQ made on my charcoal smokers (w/ wood chunks); in fact, I’ve vended with just WSM’s and people raved about the food I made on them. Good thread.
 
Beentown said:
Me thinks no matter what variables I say were compared there would be a "reasoning" no matter the results. I think it's just you or the very few like you that prefer coals over true stick burning not figuring the other factors (cost, ease of use, etc....). Based on flavor most would prefer foods produced by a properly ran stick burner, in my and seems many heres experience.

We use lump in our charcoal burners. All hot and fast cooks (plenty of O2). Almost everyone still prefers wood, real wood, with moisture in it....12-15% is our happy place for most species.

The last cook was chuck roasts. Lump only, no wood added vs. cherry in a stick burner. Both cooking at 300 degrees.

The taste subjects all preferred the stock burner food. Said something was missing from the "lump only" sample.

Just as an FYI we are doing these tests because we are taking our show bigger, much bigger. So to make the best choices for us, including cooking equipment and materials we are testing recipes and said equipment/materials. We are taking the outcomes to produce a new menu and finalize all of our equipment choices.

The outcome is we are going to keep using both charcoal cookers and stick burners.

Set and forget (blower controlled) charcoal burners using wood chunks for sleeps sake. Stickburner for short cooks and times when we can take the time to tend the fire.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

thanks for posting this. Obviously you have diligently tested and found wood to be better. I will not dispute that at all.

bcm1947 said:
Maybe some of you stick burners can help me out here. If lump charcoal is lump because it is wood that is not completely burned to ash, then it should still give you a smoked taste in your bbq similar to burning stick wood. If you are burning lump charcoal made from white oak it should still have some of what makes it white oak. I realize that it is not the same as the complete process of burning sticks of wood in your smoker, but it will flavor your bbq, somewhat like the wood it was made from. Not trying to really make a point with my posts on this thread, just trying to learn something here. Thanks
Click to expand...

Im wondering about this too. Ive done two cooks now with just the burning lump and it does give a smoke flavor that you can taste and smell, and it is very clean, but it is very light. Im thinking the wood definitely has heavier flavoring components. I would love to burn actual wood embers one day just to see how big the difference is.

Smokeymagoo said:
El,

I couldn't agree more. A few years ago purchased a Lang, so excited I could hardly stand it. The Honeymoon wore off real fast when I had to wake up every couple of hours to feed it wood.

Smokey
Click to expand...

:thumb:

thanks for posting this. The stick burner was definitely a lot of work. and not enjoyable to look forward to.
 
bcm1947 said:
Thank you for taking the time to share this information.

I smoked a pork butt on my 18.5 WSM Using B&B oak lump charcoal only. I wrapped it when the internal was @ 170 degrees. Took it to 200 degres, removed it from the smoker, and let it sit wrapped for a couple of hours before pulling. It had that great white oak taste, but overall wasn't much bark on it. I actually liked the flavor it had but one of my family members stated that it needed more smoke so I am now adding very small chunks of white oak & hickory to the lump embers. My family members seem to like it much better. Anyway, as I stated I'm only a backyard guy. Thanks
Click to expand...

so somethng happened today that kinda opened my eyes to a different way. at work bring bbq on mondays to taste. I brought some chicken smoked with lump only and 1 guy could taste and smell the smoke and the other two could not. chicken was only on the cooker 1.5 hours so it really didnt have a lot of time to absorb that much smoke.

the guy who could taste and smell the smoke does not bbq.
one guy who could not taste any smoke brought wings cooked with lump and mesquite wood (ack!!!) I only had one wing and it tasted great but I could taste that chemical mesquite flavor on my tongue for 2 hours. Obviously this guy likes his food drenched in smoke.
its definitely interesting how different people perceive smoke.

the eye opener for me was this - the guy I sold the smoker to works with me and he brought some ribs he cooked on the pecos and let me have a taste. well, damn were they delicous. very present smoke flavor but not overpowering so I asked him how he used the cooker. he used RO lump for heat and added about two sticks of pecan over a 5 hour period for flavor. It probably had the best balance of smoke that Ive had.

so now thats got me thinking lump for heat, wood for flavor (I think thats the first time thats been mentioned here ? :becky:)

I plan to experiment with different amounts of wood until I can dial in that perfect flavor.

OklaDustDevil said:
Talkin about the differences between sticks and charcoal, I often see a similar tension just amongst stick burners on this site (like me).

What I mean is that many of us stickburners focus on minimizing El Luchador's issues with sticks -- getting a bigger pit, making it out of thicker steel, including a bigger firebox, insulating the firebox, etc. All with the goal of getting more stable temps, having to add wood less frequently, being able to sleep longer, or at least fuss with the pit less frequently, at night. Sometimes also with the goal of using less wood.

But all these pit attributes work to create a more stable temp by creating a bigger thermal mass. In other words, the bigger, thicker steel maintains a more stable temp as against the sticks that are tossed in from time to time. So I keep wonderin, doesn't that mean the hot steel is serving as an oven and cookin the meat apart from the smoke of the sticks? In other words, as we increase the size, thickness, and efficiency of our smokers, aren't we cookin more with an oven and less with a smoker?

I don't know the answer, but I'd sure like to understand it. I'm guessing it's probably a matter of balance, as with most things in life. Using a cheap, thin steel smoker that consumes lots of wood probably isn't the answer; but using a super-insulated, super-efficient pit likely isn't the answer either. As Aaron Franklin says, you need good air and smoke flow thru the pit.
Click to expand...


thats really interesting. but my thought is the meat has to be exposed to all the smoke at some point so even though there is residual cooking from absorbed heat, its still getting all the wood smoke
 
I've done about a half dozen experiments using lump and small splits in my Assassin 36 grill. So far only a few cooks have had any noticeable difference in smoke flavor than when I use lump/wood chunks in the Assassin or my WSM. The mini-splits I'm using are B&B brand and not kiln dried like other brands like Western Wood that I find at Academy. However the Western Wood chunks I'm using are kiln dried. Granted it's not a stick burner by design and perhaps each piece of wood is a little different. The burning wood embers does give off an awesome smell that's hard to get from a WSM on most days. Small hot fire is the method I'm sticking to. Also so far I've found bark makes little difference in the smokiness of it all. But my research continues...:)
 
I like lump for my heat source, because I believe it will provide a cleaner burn than any briquette. The smoke from lump is not as intense as you would get from using roughly the same amount of briquettes, but you can add some small chunks of smoke wood to intensify the smoky taste in your bbq.

Our church recently had a fellowship meal, and one of the members picked up the BBQ from a local restaurant. This place is famous for good BBQ in our area and he has won several competitions over the years, if that means anything. I thought what a great opportunity to do a taste comparison between his and mine. Well, I knew after the first bite, he had a clean burn with no creosote or other foul tastes going on. I thought He had used all white oak, so I asked him, and he shared his secret concerning his choice of smoking wood in his offset. Which was as you might guess mostly white oak and hickory. I have tasted BBQ smoked with white oak and hickory a bunch over the years and that is what most people in our neck of the woods call good BBQ.

I wanted that taste from my WSM and pre-lighting my lump and adding small chunks of smoke wood have given me a very close taste. Every time I add lump I pre-light it and add small smoke chunks. I believe this whole process on my WSM is similar to burning sticks in an offset. It is amazing what we can accomplish with what we have if we just don't give up. Thanks
 
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